--- Log opened Mit Mär 16 06:40:51 2005 06:40 <@madduck__> helix: we can ask dondelelcaro, but we won't really need him... or? 06:40 <@madduck__> Rhonda, helix: what do you say? 06:41 <@helix> ask him 06:41 <@madduck__> can you handle the masses? 06:41 <@madduck__> ok. 06:41 <@helix> thanks :) 06:41 <@helix> I'm sure we can handle them, but just in case... like if Rhonda and I need to use the bathroom at the same time! 06:41 <@madduck__> dondelelcaro: they want you... :) 06:41 -!- mode/#debian-dpl-moderator [+o dondelelcaro] by madduck__ 06:41 <@helen> hi dondelelcaro :) 06:41 <@dondelelcaro> ok... I'll just play backup then, if that works 06:41 <@dondelelcaro> helen: hola... ;-) 06:42 <@madduck__> dondelelcaro: exactly. 06:42 * Rhonda looks at helix... 06:42 <@helix> dondelelcaro: nooo, you're an equal member 06:42 <@helix> Rhonda: ? 06:42 <@Rhonda> I have been to the bathroom right before I joined, just in case. :) 06:42 <@helix> ah 06:42 <@Rhonda> Still a bit sleepy, tough. Opening my first can of Shark. 06:42 <@dondelelcaro> heh 06:43 <@madduck__> yuck! 06:43 <@Rhonda> Noone can say I'm not prepared. :) 06:43 <@Rhonda> It's just these three channels for me, right? 06:43 <@helen> Rhonda: yes 06:44 <@Rhonda> The one where the candidate answers their question is for helen and madduck only? Just in case, so I don't miss anything. 06:44 <@helen> Rhonda: yes, that's right. 06:44 <@helen> we'll publish the log of it later, but just us and the candidates for the time being 06:44 <@Rhonda> I've offered to log through my irssi, btw. Shall I log in here too, or rather not? 06:45 <@madduck__> Rhonda: i am logging three times, but you can also log if you want. :) 06:45 [Users #debian-dpl-moderator] 06:45 [@dondelelcaro] [@helen] [@madduck ] [@Rhonda] 06:45 [@gort ] [@helix] [@madduck__] 06:45 -!- Irssi: #debian-dpl-moderator: Total of 7 nicks [7 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 0 normal] 06:47 <@Rhonda> So, it's looking through -discuss and picking out sensible questions into here, right? 06:47 <@helen> I am also logging. I reckon we have enough logging to be safe... 06:47 <@Rhonda> Not that I have the wrong impression of what shall be going on. 06:47 <@dondelelcaro> also, if you guys want, you can use the pasterbot... if that helps 06:47 * dondelelcaro invites it just in case 06:47 -!- paster (http://channels.debian.net/paste/) [~paster@rzlab.ucr.edu] has joined #debian-dpl-moderator 06:47 <@madduck__> wtf is the pasterbot 06:47 <@dondelelcaro> it's channels.debian.net/paste 06:48 <@madduck__> ah, okay. 06:48 <@Rhonda> madduck__: One can dump some questions on the webinterface, and paster will mention the URL in here. 06:48 <@madduck__> probably not needed, but thanks anyway. 06:48 <@madduck__> Rhonda: i can do the same from my shell way faster. :) 06:49 <@dondelelcaro> heh... yeah... I think there's a shell interface for it, but I've never bothered 06:49 <@Rhonda> I'm not meaning that _you_ should dump questions there. :) 06:49 <@Rhonda> hmm.... 06:50 <@madduck__> what's jonathan's and angus' nicks? 06:50 <@dondelelcaro> SirDibos and something 06:50 <@Rhonda> Not here yet, then? 06:51 * Rhonda has moved the channel, now I can access them through convenient alt-2, -3 and -4 :) 06:51 <@dondelelcaro> gus apparently 06:51 <@dondelelcaro> gus [~user@46.33.233.220.exetel.com.au 06:51 <@madduck__> i have four windows and am logged in four times. :) 06:52 <@Rhonda> Before it were just three times. ;) 06:53 <@Rhonda> Uhm, I guess JOINS PARTS is more to the point, helen. :) 06:54 <@helen> Rhonda: hmm was that wrong? blame dondelelcaro ;) 06:54 <@Rhonda> +QUITS 06:54 <@Rhonda> No, it wasn't. I just hids only a part of the noise. :) 06:54 <@Rhonda> hides, even. 06:54 <@helen> madduck: did you get that Angus's nick is gus ? 06:55 <@madduck__> yes 06:55 <@Rhonda> So, we -discuss won't become moderated? 06:55 <@madduck__> you want to pass out +v to everyone? 06:55 <@madduck__> nah, i say let everyone speak and you warn/kick/ban when necessary 06:56 <@helen> there are two main things we want you guys to do (I guess we already said this): 06:56 <@helen> yeah, first is that 06:56 <@helen> second is tell us here if people raise any half-decent questions for the candidates 06:57 <@helen> or anything else you think we need to know about the -discuss conversation 06:57 <@helen> am I missing anything? 06:57 <@madduck__> if possible, please prefix the questions with ****** or so to make them stand out. 06:57 <@madduck__> helen: nah, that's pretty much it... 06:57 <@Rhonda> I can make them stand out? :) 06:58 <@madduck__> :) 06:59 <@helen> madduck__: are we going to wait a few minutes for Jonathan or what? 06:59 <@madduck__> i don't think so. 06:59 <@dondelelcaro> hrm... lilo just stuck out two wallops for the debate... 06:59 <@madduck__> okay, maybe 3 07:00 <@helen> 3 minutes? 07:00 <@helen> ok 07:00 <@madduck__> helen announce it to -debate. 07:03 <@helen> I am inclined to get started once the candidates are voiced 07:03 <@helen> yes? 07:03 <@madduck__> they are voiced. 07:03 <@madduck__> go! 07:03 <@helen> ok :) 07:09 <@helen> ok, are we ok? 07:09 <@dondelelcaro> sounds good 07:10 <@Rhonda> 07:09 helen: can you try pasting the questions as one long line? The line breaks introduced by the irc client and yours don't mix well 07:10 <@Rhonda> helen: He has a point there. :) 07:10 <@helen> Rhonda: ok, thanks for telling me 07:12 <@madduck__> helen: told you so. :) 07:12 <@madduck__> (email) 07:12 <@helen> madduck: can you echo my "Time" in -replies, when I call it. 07:12 <@helen> in about 30 seconds 07:13 <@madduck__> yes 07:15 <@helen> madduck__: Andreas didn't see the question? 07:15 <@helen> wtf?? 07:16 <@madduck__> no clue... 07:18 <@helen> well, what can we do? 07:18 <@helen> his fault, I reckon. 07:18 <@Rhonda> Andreas needed quite some time for his initial reply, too... 07:19 <@madduck__> helen... can we move on? 07:19 <@dondelelcaro> http://archimedes.ucr.edu/debian_dpl_debate has the current log, if that helps anything 07:19 <@helen> madduck__: ok. 07:20 <@Rhonda> Who added the Deutsche Telekom part to the topic in -discuss? I guess we can remove it? 07:20 <@madduck__> i did 07:21 <@dondelelcaro> sorry, didn't realize there was topic lock there 07:22 <@Rhonda> ****** 07:21 JonathanWalther: Since you gave such a brief response, could you please elaborate on why you believe OpenBSD has the ultimate release cycle and how you believe you could apply this to Debian? What timescale are you considering for implementation, people can't be expected to just 'jump' and heypresto, surely? 07:22 "dondelelcaro" at 138.23.92.79 pasted "openbsd release cycle question (probably not that great of a question)" (3 lines) at http://channels.debian.net/paste/356 07:22 <@dondelelcaro> heh 07:22 <@Rhonda> Oh. :) 07:23 <@Rhonda> What shall we say on -discuss about Andreas' lack of an answer? 07:23 <@madduck__> we will allow him to submit one after the debate i guess. 07:24 <@helix> fuck 07:24 <@helix> dondelelcaro: :( 07:24 <@helix> (we are having a bot attack in #debian where dondelelcaro and I are apparently the only active ops...) 07:24 <@dondelelcaro> sorry, had to take care of a #debian bot attack 07:25 <@dondelelcaro> nb, branden's response stopped at 'as DPL' 07:26 <@dondelelcaro> (the limit is ~ 240 lines, if anyone is watching) 07:26 <@dondelelcaro> s/240 lines/450 characters/ 07:26 <@Rhonda> 07:25 Branden's line was cut 07:27 <@helen> Rhonda: thanks, we know, madduck is working on it... 07:27 <@helen> that lot are so not getting that question 07:27 * helen sighs on behalf of Debian 07:28 <@dondelelcaro> 22:27:52 possible question to the candidate: "Are you willing to go trough the NM process again, as a complete anonymous, and be tested again?" 07:28 <@helen> dondelelcaro: heh - that's quite a good one, actually. 07:29 <@helix> yeah 07:29 <@madduck__> it's a yes/no question 07:29 <@helix> well, it could be reworked maybe :/ 07:31 <@helen> yes 07:31 <@helen> it fits well into the first half of the debate, though I'm not sure we will have time for it 07:31 <@helen> I have a feeling we will need to cut questions anyway 07:31 <@helen> lets see... 07:31 <@helen> might put it into the second half 07:31 <@madduck__> i am busy right now... 07:31 <@madduck__> your call. 07:32 <@helen> we'll see how we go 07:33 <@madduck__> okay, now the script works... 07:34 <@Rhonda> Oh, slef coming in? 07:34 <@madduck__> nope 07:34 <@helix> eh 07:35 <@Rhonda> Just noticed that gort oped him. 07:35 -!- slef (MJ Ray) [ENoPulsar@81-86-163-141.dsl.pipex.com] has joined #debian-dpl-moderator 07:35 <@madduck__> slef: a little late, huh? 07:35 <@madduck__> slef: please speak to Rhonda... he will tell you what to do... 07:37 <@Rhonda> slef: Just see if there are interesting questions over there, and paste them here, propably prefixed with ****** so they can be seen by helen and madduck quickly. 07:37 * Rhonda forgives madduck the "he". :) 07:38 it's pig tail time (twirly!) and it took forever to copy up notes of yesterday's 300+mile trip 07:39 <@Rhonda> slef: If the time was really a problem it would have been nice to note it earlier. Gladly dondelelcaro was there to jump in. 07:41 <@helen> madduck__: shall we ask the candidates to paste directly to -debate instead? 07:42 <@madduck__> mh, one after the other? 07:42 <@madduck__> we can try... 07:44 <@madduck__> helen: questions 5,6,7 07:44 <@helen> ok 07:46 Rhonda: get off. 07:46 <@Rhonda> Where to? 07:47 <@Rhonda> slef: I think it would have just been polite, nothing else. Not like your reply now. Thanks. 07:48 <@helix> err 07:53 <@helen> thanks madduck__! It wasn't truncated for me 07:53 <@madduck__> i know, it's the damn server. 07:54 <@dondelelcaro> yeah, the server truncates at ~450 characters 07:54 <@madduck__> 440 07:54 <@helen> yeah, its because I was making it all one line 07:54 <@dondelelcaro> yeah, it's really 460 some odd, but you have to subtract the MSG #debian-dpl-debate part... ;-) 07:58 <@helen> are you guys managing alright with -discuss? 07:58 <@dondelelcaro> yeah... nothing too terribly exciting going on there 07:58 <@helix> they're just whining a lot 07:58 <@dondelelcaro> hey, whinging is the national sport 08:06 <@Rhonda> 08:05 helen, martin_krafft_ : go moderators go! 08:06 <@Rhonda> 08:06 good stuff after the first difficulties. 08:06 <@Rhonda> Just in case you need that shoulder pat. :) 08:07 helen, martin_krafft_, you're doing a fine job, don't let nay-sayers get to you. 08:07 <@helen> ok, madduck__ how about we skip the question about communication problems and leave the rest in the second half? 08:07 <@helen> madduck: I am aware that we are short of time, and that you and I both have to leave not so long after 8 (8.40 for me) 08:14 <@helen> madduck__: you go for it when you're ready. Good luck :) 08:17 <@helen> madduck__: I think this one is very much to the point: 08:17 <@helen> [07:14:34] Manoj: yes, exactly.  I was wondering why none of the candidates answered the question about the benefits of a diverse developer population and wondered if anyone here could name any.  not just sex diversity 08:17 do we need more questions for the open debate? 08:17 <@helen> well, not really. 08:17 <@helen> but if there are very interesting ones let us know, please. 08:18 <@helen> we have too many questions already, but we need to pick the best 08:19 ok, will just track for extension questions 08:26 *** If our BTS is the best in the world then why doesn't anyone else use it? 08:26 <@Rhonda> *** "JonathanWalther: how many BTS do you know?" 08:27 <@Rhonda> They address the same thing, I can see. 08:28 Rhonda: That was a quote of a question asked, isn't it? 08:28 <@Rhonda> Yes. It was meant as a question. 08:30 <@helen> madduck__: it's not too complicated - it's not a patch on your average debian women IRc discussion. Don't worry :) 08:32 should you discourage vague refs to -vote or platforms? 08:33 <@helen> slef: I think people will reread the platforms later and see whether the reference make sense or not 08:36 <@Rhonda> ****** OK, here's a question for the candidates: Do you feel it is appropriate to delegate new people to a position within Debian without the support of the individuals already delegated, should that need arise? 08:37 womble++ 08:38 can we reduce candidates be interrogating each other? JW's Q looks like "when will you stop beating your wife?" 08:38 <@helix> yeah, agreed 08:39 <@helix> (nevermind that he's accusing mjg59 of something he didn't even do) 08:39 <@madduck__> the community will tell. 08:40 <@helix> ***** (womble) Can I get a retraction on that comment by krooger? I don't have admin powers over any list 08:42 martin_krafft_: request: can you please restrict your role to steering the debate, and not rebutting specific developers? IMHO person-specific rebuttals should be left to the other candidates and not the moderator (who has a uniquely elevated voice) 08:43 <@madduck__> ??? 08:43 <@Rhonda> This is getting more and more like a mud-wrestling.... 08:47 <@helen> slef: the idea was to see how they interact. Now we are seeing... 08:47 <@helen> it's a bit hard to control them, predictably 08:47 <@madduck__> oh jonathan 08:47 <@helix> heh 08:47 <@Rhonda> At least you aren't Jerry Springer and pushing it. All hail helix and madduck.... 08:48 <@Rhonda> Uhm, helen ... 08:48 <@Rhonda> Why can't you be unique in your nicks earlier 8- 08:48 <@Rhonda> ) 08:49 <@helix> *** (vorlon) helix: "what do you believe should be the minimum level of involvement for Debian developers?" 08:50 <@helix> he says it got lost in the -discuss scrollback or something 08:50 <@Rhonda> ***** Question for candidates: In what way do you think Debian can honor the labor contributions of non-DDs who do significant work for the project (e.g. translators)? 08:51 <@helen> helix: no, he emailed it to me and we dropped it from the list of candidate questions. I'll remember later on why that was. 08:51 <@helix> oh ok 08:51 <@helen> helix: we had a *lot* of questions submitted. 08:51 <@helix> yeah, I believe it 08:51 <@Rhonda> I think that question is a good one... 08:52 <@helen> madduck__: you going to throw in Q8 or Q9 from the old plan for part 1? 08:52 <@madduck__> yeah 08:52 migus asks something like "What would be the biggest improvements you would try to lead?" 08:53 <@madduck__> ugh 08:55 now JW is interrogating the moderator?!? 08:57 * dondelelcaro refrains from commenting on "23:57:11 <+JonathanWalther> BrandenRobinson: I don't know any debian developers who can't at least program their way out of a paper bag." 09:01 should that be s/can/should/ ? 09:02 seems they all took it that way any road, nm 09:02 <@madduck__> jonathan. :) 09:03 <@Rhonda> ***** 09:02 martin_krafft_: *should* expect from DDs, not *can* expect from DDs 09:04 <@helix> erk, almost lost my connection 09:04 <@helix> hmm, if I drop out, blame my ISP 09:04 helix: not the backhoe of the telco? 09:05 <@madduck__> man your humour sucks 09:05 <@helix> I don't catch the reference 09:06 <@Rhonda> Just in case, we're in overtime. 09:06 <@madduck__> i know. 09:06 <@Rhonda> I don't want you to miss what ever you need to catch. :) 09:07 <@dondelelcaro> madduck__: suggest that candidates can continue talking in -discuss if they wish? 09:07 Thanks moderators! 09:09 helix: I've had a telco put a backhoe through my internet connection at a really inappropriate time in the past. No matter. 09:09 <@helix> heh 09:09 <@helix> wow 09:09 back when I worked somewhere with a dedicated line 09:09 <@helix> oh, even better! 09:10 <@madduck__> can we close this channel? 09:10 of course, having a dedicated line meant they could afford no backup link :-/ I'll stop now 09:10 dunno, are we staying on to watch -discuss? 09:10 <@madduck__> not me. 09:10 <@madduck__> i have to catch a plane 09:10 <@dondelelcaro> I'll stick around for an hour in -discuss 09:10 <@helix> hmm, I may 09:11 <@madduck__> thanks. 09:11 <@helix> yeah, an hour-ish sounds good 09:11 <@helen> madduck__: I think we can close this now. 09:11 is it useful to keep the back-channel open? 09:11 <@helen> slef: we don't need to moderate -discuss any more, now that the debate is over. 09:11 <@dondelelcaro> madduck__: before you go, could you untopiclock discuss? 09:11 <@dondelelcaro> or stick the transcript link on -discuss? 09:11 <@madduck__> i will. 09:11 <@dondelelcaro> madduck__: thanks! 09:11 <@madduck__> you cannot change the topic? 09:12 <@dondelelcaro> madduck__: I can, but chanserv changes it right back 09:12 <@madduck__> damn. 09:12 <@dondelelcaro> it's topiclock or somesuch setting 09:12 <@helix> chanserv is such a hater 09:12 <@madduck__> Rhonda: do you have all four channels logged online already? 09:12 madduck__: chanserv--? 09:13 <@helix> mod it down! way down! 09:13 <@Rhonda> madduck__: I have been only in three out of access permissions, but I can put those up if you like? 09:13 <@madduck__> dondelelcaro: done. 09:13 <@madduck__> try again. 09:13 <@madduck__> i'll put mine up then. no worries. --- Log closed Mit Mär 16 09:14:08 2005