--- Log opened Mit Mär 16 06:41:04 2005 06:41 -!- mode/#debian-dpl-discuss [+o dondelelcaro] by martin_krafft_ 06:42 -!- f4bbione (Fabio Massimo Di Nitto) [~fabbione@port49.ds1-van.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss 06:43 -!- daniels (Daniel Stone) [~daniels@amnesiac.heapspace.net] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss 06:45 -!- f4bbione is now known as fabbione 06:45 -!- fabbione [~fabbione@port49.ds1-van.adsl.cybercity.dk] has quit [Client Quit] 06:45 -!- Overfiend is now known as BrandenRobinson 06:46 -!- covbob (graham) [~graham@cpc2-cove5-3-0-cust50.brhm.cable.ntl.com] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss 06:46 -!- kmuto (Kenshi Muto) [~kmuto@swordman.kmuto.jp] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss 06:46 -!- aj is now known as AnthonyTowns 06:48 -!- fabbione (Fabio Massimo Di Nitto) [~fabbione@port49.ds1-van.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss 06:49 -!- mjg59 (Matthew Garrett) [~mjg59@tyrosine.codon.org.uk] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss 06:49 <@martin_krafft_> mjg59: i invited you to -replies... 06:49 -!- stockholm is now known as AndreasSchuldei 06:50 -!- easthero (easthero) [~easthero@220.248.180.2] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss 06:50 -!- peterS [~peterS~@adsl-64-123-112-211.dsl.wchtks.swbell.net] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss 06:50 -!- peterS is Peter Samuelson 06:50 -!- mjg59 is now known as MatthewGarrett 06:51 -!- xyb (Xie Yanbo) [~xyb@218.30.108.122] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss 06:51 -!- mazzanet (MazzaServ) [~mazzanet@mazzanet.user] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss 06:51 -!- Glue (GLUE) [~glue@137.132.25.5] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss 06:51 -!- rover_dan (daniel) [~daniel@220.248.128.10] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss 06:52 -!- youam (Uli Martens) [~youam@ciara.youam.de] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss 06:53 -!- sanxiyn [~tinuviel@218.145.51.39] has left #debian-dpl-discuss ["Bye"] 06:53 -!- DexterK (DexterK) [~root@220.187.82.200] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss 06:53 -!- sanxiyn (Seo Sanghyeon) [~tinuviel@218.145.51.39] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss 06:54 -!- pasc (Pascal Hakim) [pasc@gandalf.redellipse.net] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss 06:54 -!- xjzzx (gaim) [~xjzzx@222.80.187.254] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss 06:54 -!- karsten (Karsten M. Self) [~karsten@host-66-81-221-141.rev.o1.com] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss 06:54 -!- zzxxcc (aster) [~user@221.232.15.214] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss 06:54 -!- Huahua (Huang Jiahua) [~hua@61.235.118.66] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss 06:55 lol 06:55 -!- sabetts (sabetts) [~sabetts@pool-151-201-123-127.pitt.east.verizon.net] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss 06:55 mmm muchas peoples 06:55 hey sabetts 06:55 -!- part (Teemu Hukkanen) [dfd43d8a77@mother.fishpool.fi] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss 06:55 mazzanet: you don't get around irc much, do you? this isn't a lot 06:55 -!- aaronl (keke) [aaronl@dsl081-060-252.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss 06:55 -!- _mordechai (You can rent this place for only $5 a week) [~noident@91967496cb5de168.node.tor] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss 06:55 rcyeske: hey rc. you ready for the turds hitting the fan blades? 06:56 -!- Lightning|Zzzz (Administrator) [~Administr@218.80.82.79] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss 06:56 peterS: as in more people joining 06:56 -!- tga (Tiberiu Ana) [~thu@S0106000f66aeaf64.vs.shawcable.net] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss 06:56 <_mordechai> hi :} 06:56 seems /ignore #debian-dpl-debate JOINS PARTS QUITS NICKS doesn't work? 06:56 hi £¬ all £º£© 06:56 -!- pronik (Nikolai Prokoschenko) [~pronik@i3ED685BF.versanet.de] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss 06:56 hi huahua 06:56 I certainly haven't seen this much people joining, without much talk. 06:56 -!- stouset (gaim) [~stephen@adsl-211-18-221.asm.bellsouth.net] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss 06:57 caiqian: what client? 06:57 (That is, /join filling the screen.) 06:57 -!- gus (unknown) [~user@46.33.233.220.exetel.com.au] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss 06:57 Zugschlus, xchat 06:57 sanxiyn: you've never seen a netsplit? (: 06:57 -!- LucidIon (Jonathan Smith) [~jonathan@tritium.demon.co.uk] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss 06:57 peterS: Heh. 06:57 greetings lucidion 06:57 <@dondelelcaro> the /ignore #debian-dpl-debate JOINS PARTS QUITS NICKS; thing is only for irssi-text. If you know other clients, put them out. 06:57 This channel is going to be insane 06:57 <@dondelelcaro> s/put/spit/ 06:57 -!- Robot101 (Robert McQueen) [robot101@light.bluelinux.co.uk] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss 06:57 peterS: Have you seen something like this, except in a netsplit? 06:57 * peterS doesn't put out for dondelelcaro 06:57 dondelelcaro, get it 06:57 how do you do this in xchat? 06:58 caiqian: right click on the tab, #d-dpl-discuss, turn off join/part 06:58 -!- janm (Jan Alonzo) [~jm@202.172.110.61] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss 06:58 -!- smurfix (Matthias Urlichs) [~smurf@smurfix.developer.debian] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss 06:58 actually, my irssi-text needed /ignore #debian-dpl-debate * JOIN NICKS PARTS QUITS 06:58 sanxiyn: there are lots of inactive channels out there where you do see nothing but joins/parts/quits for long time periods. not necessarily this many joins in this short of a time, but the visual effect is the same 06:58 pabs3， thanks 06:58 <_mordechai> o-o, right click on channel name 06:58 pabs3: Thanks, too. 06:58 _mordechai: got it. 06:58 Zugschlus: that's because you autocompleted something. 06:58 NICKS means nick changes, right? those won't happen in #debian-dpl-debate 06:58 (using , I mean) 06:58 <@dondelelcaro> peterS: yeah, they won't... 06:58 peterS: yes 06:58 dato: NACK, all typed manually, but a -time 480 06:58 -!- Antz_ (gaim) [~anton@82-70-166-214.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss 06:59 -!- mykilx (Mykilx) [mykilx@pool-71-98-178-44.tampfl.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss 06:59 * rcyeske makes some popcorn 06:59 -!- kanru_ (Kanru Chen) [~kanru@218-163-174-174.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss 06:59 -!- tga [~thu@S0106000f66aeaf64.vs.shawcable.net] has quit [Client Quit] 06:59 -!- musasabi (Einar Karttunen) [ekarttun@myntti.helsinki.fi] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss 07:00 can someone tell me how to /ignore joins/parts in irssi? 07:00 I disagree with everything the candidates have said so far! Discuss. 07:00 -!- vondel (Reinder Cuperus) [vondel@margo.student.utwente.nl] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss 07:00 BrandenRobinson: /ignore -channels #debian-dpl-discuss -time 480 * JOINS QUITS PARTS NICKS 07:00 BrandenRobinson: actually, my irssi-text needed /ignore #debian-dpl-debate * JOIN NICKS PARTS QUITS 07:00 BrandenRobinson: we've just been discussing. /ignore #debian-dpl-debate * JOINS PARTS QUITS 07:00 <@dondelelcaro> BrandenRobinson: /ignore foochannel JOINS PARTS QUITS; should do it 07:00 -!- dakan (Nik Hodgkinson) [~dakan@ppp-66-140-92-91.dialup.kscymo.swbell.net] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss 07:00 oh, look you were 07:00 -!- trave11er (Jurij Smakov) [~jurijus@d141-164-215.home.cgocable.net] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss 07:00 dondelelcaro: /topic that. 07:00 sorry. 07:00 * lilo looks in 07:00 hi all 07:00 <_mordechai> hi lilo 07:00 hey lilo 07:00 lilo: Gr00ts. 07:00 <@dondelelcaro> karsten: there's probably not enough room... 07:00 -!- sanxiyn [~tinuviel@218.145.51.39] has left #debian-dpl-discuss ["Bye"] 07:00 I think that can be contracted as 'hilo' 07:01 hey _mordechai, part, dondelelcaro, karsten 07:01 well, hi all 8) 07:01 Zugschlus> actually, my irssi-text needed /ignore #debian-dpl-debate * JOIN NICKS PARTS QUITS 07:01 -!- Xore (Xore) [~Xore@Xore.convertor.phpbb] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss 07:01 -!- joeyh (Joey Hess) [joey@kitenet.net] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss 07:01 -!- gus is now known as AngusLees 07:01 bah 07:01 -!- plypkie (Pete Lypkie) [~pete@S01060080c8ec8b94.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss 07:01 -!- tove (Torsten) [~tove@pD9ED7314.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss 07:01 full names? 07:01 o-o: for the candidates, yeah 07:01 -!- sanxiyn (Seo Sanghyeon) [~tinuviel@218.145.51.39] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss 07:01 o-o: you are up, to? 07:01 too? 07:01 mmm 07:01 plypkie: yo nid. 07:01 * joeyh wonders how he missed the announce for this 07:02 o-o: some non-irc-regulars will be watching, full names for the candidates make it less confusing 07:02 -!- TCW (Michael Schmitt) [~TCW@europa.hardworx-online.net] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss 07:02 joeyh: I didn't, it's in my calendar, but I *still* was surprised that it's now. ;-) 07:02 maybe set the debate chan to that mode where joins/parts are hidden once the debate begins? 07:02 *yawn* 07:02 <@dondelelcaro> Valis-Nestrav: that can't be done, unfortunatly. 07:02 dondelelcaro: Point. 07:02 helen: perhaps you want to give +v to the candidates on -debate ? 07:02 dondelelcaro: Nuke something else then ;-) 07:02 ahhh :( 07:02 <@martin_krafft_> fabbione: yeah yeah 07:02 and where's Walther? 07:02 Hiding 07:02 il just disable them in my client then ;) 07:03 In his bunker 07:03 peterS: the punk aint showing up 07:03 -!- chrisa (Chris Anderson) [~chris@nullcode.org] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss 07:03 :-) 07:03 :D 07:03 fabbione: I think moderators _paste_ their responses. how it works is explained in the mail. 07:03 -!- ffrank (Frank Küsterüster) [~frank@84-72-90-246.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss 07:03 * trave11er shooshes 07:03 can we have a moderator called | ? :) 07:03 heh 07:03 <_mordechai> and what's up with d. telekom? :) 07:04 question for JonathanWalther: Why the f*** did you insist on this time, so silly for europeans, when you not even come to attend yourself? 07:04 Gooooo krooger! 07:04 Drumroll! 07:04 he is running?? 07:04 btw, will this be publicly logged? 07:04 lol 07:04 o-o: yes 07:04 jvw: you'll have to excuse him, he has as much trouble converting to UTC as he does keeping track of which release we're preparing 07:04 <@helix> jvw: this channel? or theirs? 07:04 jvw: It's silly for americans too :-) 07:04 this 07:05 jvw: actually this works quite fine in europe - it is 08:04 here. 07:05 vorlon: haha :) 07:05 st even worse 07:05 <@helix> jvw: nah, I don't think so 07:05 It's 15:05 here. 07:05 that clinches it, the time choice was another AJ conspiracy 07:05 musasabi: it's 7:05 here 07:05 musasabi: yeah, it's too early 07:05 -!- mode/#debian-dpl-discuss [+c] by dondelelcaro 07:05 *snicker* 07:05 youam: don't remind me ;-) 07:05 dato: sorry :) 07:05 musasabi: depends on which Europe. It's 0707 here 07:05 -!- zbrown (zac) [~suifur@suifur.linuxfordummies] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss 07:05 <@Rhonda> dondelelcaro: Thanks for thinking along. :) 07:05 vorlon: it's highly inconvient in .au 07:05 hehe 07:05 musasabi: We're hackers. This is not "fine". 07:05 vorlon: it's 5pm, we should be at the pub 07:05 pasc: 07:05 Crap...Branden waved at Stevie Wonder. You think that's gonna hurt him at the polls? 07:06 AndreasSchuldei: still sleepy :) 07:06 -!- yaegashi (YAEGASHI Takeshi) [~yaegashi@rdqgw1.qb.rd-namco.com] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss 07:06 2 less to vote... 07:06 maybe the point is for everybody to be sleepy....takes the edge off 8) 07:06 Convinient in .kr. Nice. 07:06 <@helix> 1am is convenient for me. yay EST 07:06 BrandenRobinson: /ignore -channels #debian-dpl-discuss -time 18000 * JOINS QUITS PARTS NICKS 07:06 * chrisa yawns somewhat 07:06 upps 07:06 as if 7am is so cool... 07:07 -!- jaldhar (sirc user) [~jaldhar@pcp09354467pcs.jersyc01.nj.comcast.net] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss 07:07 <@helix> jvw: you're usually up at 7am anyway.. 07:07 heh break for nature 07:07 BrandenRobinson is a naturist? 07:07 helix: I'm not, no way 07:07 helix: it's 1am and some of us have exams this week -_- 07:07 Hm, martin miscompleted name, obviously 07:07 <@helix> well, you should've taken naps 07:07 my cats wake ma at 0630 anyway 07:07 -!- orospakr (Andrew Clunis) [~orospakr@CPE0004762b7051-CM001225701f0e.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss 07:07 * Rhonda pokes AndreasSchuldei. 07:07 chrisa: Pussy :-) 07:07 well so much for that theory 07:07 =-\ 07:07 gravity: pfft, I'll be up till 5. BRING IT 07:07 Although I did just finish my month and a half long paper, so this is my celebratory party 07:08 Woohoo 07:08 now the question can be "why are you late" 07:08 gravity: w00t! 07:08 * gravity ^5's chrisa 07:08 -!- agi (Alberto Gonzalez Iniesta) [~agi@agi.developer.debian] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss 07:08 07:07:44 -!- SirDinosaur [~user@s142-179-93-180.bc.hsia.telus.net] has joined 07:08 #debian-devel 07:08 pasc: don't you mean, "which verse of the Torah explains why you were late"? 07:08 lol 07:08 heh 07:08 <@helix> heh 07:08 heh 07:08 sirdino! weeeee! 07:08 aha, there he is ;) 07:08 SirDinosaur has arrived 07:08 that's such an odd nick 07:09 he uses SirDibos too 07:09 yah, I know 07:09 helen: can you try pasting the questions as one long line? The line breaks introduced by the irc client and yours don't mix well 07:09 Why does Branden need a break for nature? That's what laptops are for... 07:09 he gave up sirdibos it seems 07:09 jeez, such long questions make my head hurt... 07:09 * vorlon blinks at the first question. :) 07:09 not sure what that means, but it's the one I've seen for the longest time 07:09 -!- mhatta- (Masayuki Hatta) [~mhatta@oscar.opensource.jp] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss 07:09 that's a lot for 5 minutes :) 07:09 lol @ coffee 07:09 -!- adamhall [~adamhall@24-119-156-96.cpe.cableone.net] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss 07:09 <@martin_krafft_> jvw: it's all about the pressure. :) 07:09 oh come on 07:09 -!- enrico [~enrico@enrico.developer.debian] has quit [Client Quit] 07:09 <@helix> vorlon: heh, yeah 07:09 if even our main RM blinks at it :).... 07:09 they knew a release cycle question was coming 07:09 * joeyh agrees and drags the debate tab to a larger frame 07:09 * lilo hums the Jeopardy theme 07:10 yay ion users :) 07:10 joeyh: Ion? 07:10 you usually don't get 5 minutes to explain stuff like this to a reporter, fwiw 07:10 Ah. 07:10 it would be an odd DPL debate without one of those 07:10 jvw: I'm somehow thinking this question was submitted...um... earlier than Sunday 07:10 da 07:10 <@helix> ion++ 07:10 which kind of cation? 07:10 vorlon: you're kidding, right? :) 07:10 what release? 07:10 <@dondelelcaro> peterS: the divalent type 07:10 vorlon: so we get to see who's kept up on their reading? ;-) 07:11 bdale: must be. :) 07:11 * gravity submitted a question well before sunday 07:11 -!- jeronim_ (jj) [~jj@jeronim.wikipedia] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss 07:11 gee, vorlon, what happened on Sunday? tell us :) 07:11 ore: #debian-devel has about a dozen mail messages talking about it 07:11 s/#// 07:11 well, maybe more than a dozen 07:11 .o0(how do I turn off channel joins in x-chat?) 07:11 1251 in fact =) 07:11 Loevborg: kindly see your backlog 07:11 06:58 (using , I mean) 07:11 <_mordechai> right click on channel tab 07:11 * chrisa is so far behind on all happenings 07:11 Loevborg: Right click on tabs. 07:11 <@helix> 1251?! 07:11 Loevborg: rightclick on channel 07:11 ok, a dozen hundred 07:11 I was close 07:11 Loevborg: 06:58 caiqian: right click on the tab, #d-dpl-discuss, turn off join/part 07:11 <@Rhonda> jvw: If you believe that it's krooger, can you ask him to join? 07:11 * helix faints 07:12 peterS: yeah, I'm kidding, but it's 7am, gimme a break 07:12 -!- orospakr [~orospakr@CPE0004762b7051-CM001225701f0e.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Client Quit] 07:12 I already joked yesterday about "Vancouver plan" becoming something like "Oslo", "Kyoto", "Geneva convention" 07:12 Rhonda: hell no 07:12 dato, thanks! 07:12 ore: I know (: 07:12 Oops, I was wrong. That's the number of mails in the last 48 hours, which of course includes other stuff... 07:12 -!- Tatey (macbeth) [~macbeth@203-213-105-202-qld.tpgi.com.au] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss 07:12 Even Walther joined... 07:12 * joeyh sees how many CANs he can process between questions 07:12 jvw: more like "Stockholm" or "Munich" 07:12 Not just the Vancouver coup. 07:12 ugg... 07:12 helix: Have you not been keeping up on the Vancouver discussion? 07:12 vancouver syndrome! 07:12 * mazzanet slaps Tatey 07:12 whats the vancouver deal? 07:12 * Adrinael actually read all those mails! 07:12 -!- Astinus (Alex Howells) [~windpaw@astinus.developer.gentoo] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss 07:12 <@Rhonda> jvw: Thanks at least for noticing it. 07:12 -!- orospakr (Andrew Clunis) [~orospakr@CPE0004762b7051-CM001225701f0e.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss 07:12 no slapping, kthx 07:12 rcyeske: are you from another planet? 07:12 rcyeske: Drop all but i386, powerpc, amd64 07:12 <@helix> gravity: not entirely... it's sort of painful for me to watch the way people speak to each other 07:12 even gentoo developers are peering over :) 07:12 * smurfix too, but that hasn't necessarily helped 07:12 Big Trouble in Little Vancouver 07:12 gravity: she actually knew about the meeting before it happened. I think it's safe to assume she knows enough about it 07:13 -!- PigZelner (I forgot) [~PigZelner@cm-84.118.23.226.chello.no] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss 07:13 "Serious issues with Mr. Vancouver" 07:13 jvw: lol 07:13 trave11er: yeah im from vancouver. 07:13 nothing going on on #debate..... 07:13 peterS: No, I knew about it the same way. But like aj said, it was a surprise to all 07:13 <@helix> eh, a lot of people knew about the meeting beforehand. that's meaningless. 07:13 * plypkie finds this hilarious, being in Vancouver right now 07:13 "A bad case of Vancouver" 07:13 "debian does vancouver" 07:13 o-o: candidates are preparing their replies 07:13 trave11er: Nice 07:13 "Vancoup d'etat" 07:13 "pulling a vancouver" 07:13 o-o: they have 5min, it's all in the announcement mail 07:13 -!- pronik [~pronik@i3ED685BF.versanet.de] has quit [Client Quit] 07:13 plypkie: yeah this is good stuff. 07:13 <@Rhonda> o-o: The replies are collected in a different channel, to give them an even chance. 07:13 this format is going to be tedious to watch 07:13 "ftpmaster vancouvered out" 07:13 5 min silence? No poltician gets that chance... 07:14 DAH, dah dah dah dah. dah. dah. 07:14 * lilo ends his humming 07:14 -!- Hydroxide (Jimmy Kaplowitz) [user@Hydroxide.developer.debian] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss 07:14 o-o: politicians don't have to type, either 07:14 bdale: nod 07:14 * mazzanet smacks lilo with a dugong 07:14 I see "Time" being called: what was the first question? 07:14 -!- diodesign (Chris Williams) [~drobe@83-216-143-249.thomas866.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss 07:14 peterS: Unfortunately. Would help a lot if they did. 07:14 it was about the debian release cycle 07:14 enrico: it was a long one 07:14 evenin. 07:14 <_rene_> enrico: release process ;-=) 07:14 enrico: "what would you do about the release cycle"? :) 07:14 <_rene_> s/=// 07:14 if broken, explain what you'd do, if not, explain why you think so 07:14 enrico: talking about the release process and how to fix/not fix it 07:14 enrico: release cycle. yawn. 07:14 something of the sort 07:15 Oh, right 07:15 thanks 07:15 -!- womble [~mpalmer@216.017.dsl.nsw.iprimus.net.au] has quit [Client Quit] 07:15 candidates seem to be as tired as I. 07:15 there is a cycle to the debian releases? 07:15 enrico: full wording at http://rafb.net/paste/results/wmAEFp23.html 07:15 Time was 2 minutes ago, I think they're procrastinating. 07:15 -!- t-macphail (Trevor MacPhail) [~tmacphail@S0106000625d83f0e.vf.shawcable.net] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss 07:15 -!- danly|wintermute (Dan Leslie) [~dleslie@dhcp802-1-101.dsl.ucc-net.ca] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss 07:15 martin_krafft_: that line-by-line-paste is unreadable 07:15 <@helix> urgh, this pastes very badly 07:15 wah.. we're expected to read this?! 07:15 * gravity is glad he expanded his irc chan window lenght 07:15 helix: fortunately it also pastes slowly so it doesn't matter 07:15 this is so going slowly... 07:15 -!- Hashar (Edouard Constant de la trépeuillère) [another@Hashar.wikipedia] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss 07:15 * trave11er didn't 07:15 jvw: very 07:16 -!- trave11er [~jurijus@d141-164-215.home.cgocable.net] has quit [Client Quit] 07:16 since they pasted in some common channel anyway... 07:16 <@helix> sure it does, if you don't read it line by line as it comes out 07:16 <@Rhonda> Astinus: The moderators are preparing the answers for the channel. 07:16 <_rene_> Vancouver Prospectus. hehe 07:16 can't they just past themselves? 07:16 WikiNames.. 07:16 dato: thanks 07:16 Rhonda: Ahh, I see now ;) Thanks for the reply. 07:16 Reading the responses hurts my brain 07:16 Rhonda: oh, I read cabal where you wrote channel... /me must be a bit tired 07:16 paste hurts 07:16 -!- trave11er (Jurij Smakov) [~jurijus@d141-164-215.home.cgocable.net] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss 07:16 Painful formatting 07:16 <@Rhonda> Astinus: It's done this way to avoid exactly this accusings. :) 07:16 -!- dakan [~dakan@ppp-66-140-92-91.dialup.kscymo.swbell.net] has left #debian-dpl-discuss [] 07:17 <@dondelelcaro> See http://archimedes.ucr.edu/debian_dpl_debate for the current log if anyone missed the early part 07:17 Heh, now all we need is a decent formatting system and we're sorted ;-) 07:17 -!- Mithrandir (Tollef Fog Heen) [~tfheen@vawad.err.no] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss 07:17 Let's see how many answers match the regexp /Vancouver/ 07:17 i have a hostmask :P 07:17 <@Rhonda> jvw: Uhm, I try to avoid to say that you've got a point there.... *ducks* 07:17 2.5 years? hmmmm 07:17 -!- sabetts [~sabetts@pool-151-201-123-127.pitt.east.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 07:18 I love when AnthonyTowns takes a position "I fully support what ____ team / ____ delegate is doing" without mentioning that he's referring to himself 07:18 <@martin_krafft_> Zugschlus: i will try to do something about it. 07:18 so SirDibos gets the good paste? 07:18 he seems to have been doing that a lot of late 07:18 elmo for dpl! 07:18 -!- zobel (Martin Zobel-Helas (0xFA4F45BC)) [zobel@zobel.ftbfs.de] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss 07:18 I'd regard 24 months as an upper sane limit. 07:18 <@martin_krafft_> it's all about how they paste to me. 07:18 bah, this is in the middle of the night. 07:18 martin_krafft_: thanks 07:18 Heh, if I were voting based on length of response, we'd have a loser already 07:18 Wow... maybe I should just jump ship for OpenBSD, since they're doing it right 07:18 peterS: ROFL 07:18 joeyh: :-) 07:18 smurfix: whatever happened to release early release often... 07:18 was krooger's answer a one-liner? 07:19 martin_krafft_: much better 07:19 <@helix> trave11er: seems so 07:19 martin_krafft_: and AndreasSchuldei answer? 07:19 trave11er: he showed up late. 07:19 JW is being particularly... brief 07:19 Hm. 07:19 peterS: At least the head remains warm... 07:19 are there rebuttals or something now? 07:19 martin_krafft_: how about pasting the PersonName as a heading and the rest without the [NamePrefix]? 07:19 sanxiyn: yeah, he did mention that at some point 07:19 Does JW want to build OpenDebLD? 07:19 <@martin_krafft_> "technical difficulties" 07:19 * vorlon lols. "I believe OpenBSD has developed the optimal release strategy." 07:19 -!- nyu (Robert Millan) [~rmh@nyu.developer.debian] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss 07:19 -!- Tatey [~macbeth@203-213-105-202-qld.tpgi.com.au] has left #debian-dpl-discuss ["Leaving"] 07:19 * daniels is amused that it's now the OpenBSD release strategy, not the OpenBSD/Xouvert/GNOME release strategy. 07:20 heh 07:20 bah 07:20 peterS: Anthony Towns is no longer a release manager, I think 07:20 -!- Topic for #debian-dpl-discuss: The 2005 Debian DPL debate will take place on 16 March 2005, 06:00 UTC | Candidate names and platforms are available at http://www.debian.org/vote/2005/vote_001 | Debate details: http://lists.debian.org/debian-vote/2005/03/msg00507.html | Summary of debian-vote discussions: http://debian.edv-bus.at/vote-2005 | This is the public discussion channel for the debate. | Deutsche Telekom are dilettants! 07:20 -!- Topic set by martin_krafft_ [~madduck@madduck.developer.debian] [Wed Mar 16 02:02:06 2005] 07:20 -!- nobse (Norbert Tretkowski) [tretkowski@intrepid.inittab.de] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss 07:20 so I don't see how it refers to himself 07:20 Hydroxide: he is, however, ftpmaster 07:20 he isn't 07:20 daniels: What was Xouvert release strategy? 07:20 Zugschlus: ah 07:20 sanxiyn: 'don't' 07:20 Hydroxide: and he has been part of the Vancouver cabal 07:20 he stepped down eh, a year ago? 07:20 helen: no answer from Andreas? 07:20 daniels: well, everybody else stole it from OpenBSD, including Ubuntu, you know 07:20 andreas sidn't respnd? 07:20 I think it's very interesting to see Jonathan doing the 'serious' thing 07:20 vorlon: lol 07:20 -!- Irssi: Topic: -: Deutsche Telekom are dilettants! 07:20 -!- Irssi: Topic: +: current debate log at http://archimedes.ucr.edu/debian_dpl_debate 07:20 -!- dondelelcaro changed the topic of #debian-dpl-discuss to: The 2005 Debian DPL debate will take place on 16 March 2005, 06:00 UTC | Candidate names and platforms are available at http://www.debian.org/vote/2005/vote_001 | Debate details: http://lists.debian.org/debian-vote/2005/03/msg00507.html | Summary of debian-vote discussions: http://debian.edv-bus.at/vote-2005 | This is the public discussion channel for the debate. | current debate log at http://archimedes.ucr.edu/debian_dpl_debate 07:20 -!- Irssi: Topic: -: current debate log at http://archimedes.ucr.edu/debian_dpl_debate 07:20 -!- Irssi: Topic: +: Deutsche Telekom are dilettants! 07:20 -!- ChanServ changed the topic of #debian-dpl-discuss to: The 2005 Debian DPL debate will take place on 16 March 2005, 06:00 UTC | Candidate names and platforms are available at http://www.debian.org/vote/2005/vote_001 | Debate details: http://lists.debian.org/debian-vote/2005/03/msg00507.html | Summary of debian-vote discussions: http://debian.edv-bus.at/vote-2005 | This is the public discussion channel for the debate. | Deutsche Telekom are dilettants! 07:20 * lilo is not sure what else he thinks about that 07:20 this is boring. where are the special effects? 07:20 Hydroxide: he's stated before in this election cycle that he supported the release manager's work back when woody was released, or some such. as well as how he thinks that the ftpmaster role are doing great 07:21 when is he gonna talk about beer! 07:21 4 minutes... why not 4 minutes and 15 seconds? 07:21 JonathanWalther: Since you gave such a brief response, could you please elaborate on why you believe OpenBSD has the ultimate release cycle and how you believe you could apply this to Debian? What timescale are you considering for implementation, people can't be expected to just 'jump' and heypresto, surely? 07:21 Heh, the next is NM. 07:21 -!- kandinski (Javier Candeira) [~candyman@gamma.sinetgy.com] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss 07:21 Oooh, interesting question. 07:21 <_rene_> omg. NM... 07:21 -!- bignose-ork (The Nose Who Knows) [~bignose@eth595.vic.adsl.internode.on.net] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss 07:21 o-o: I'm waiting for the question -- "please emulate 10 stages of a 8x8 game of life starting from initial random coinditions" 07:21 they are the same as last year 07:21 Yeah, but NM without the "OMGZ0RZ! ELM0 HATES ME!" crap 07:21 what is wrong with Deutsche Telekom? 07:21 NM has greatly improved since Ganneff 07:22 haha joeyh 07:22 (first dpl to end up with a glider gets my vote) 07:22 lilo: his DPL platform was one carefully crafted troll... 07:22 not any more a problem, IMO 07:22 <@helix> Zugschlus: that's madduck's ISP which was being bad earlier 07:22 helix: said manpower 07:22 Deutsche Telekom seriously tried to keep madduck out of this =) 07:22 joeyh: Have you submitted that question? 07:22 pity no 07:22 <@helix> hacim: ? 07:22 we are still missing AndreasSchuldei answer to the first question 07:22 helix: Deutsche Telekom or T-Oneline? 07:22 helix: i hate that word, it so gendered 07:22 did he gave any answer to it or not? 07:22 fabbione: presumably he didn't get it in in 5 minutes 07:22 fabbione: he was late, maybe didn't have time 07:22 <@helix> hacim: oh. well in this case it actually refers to men 07:22 hacim: "personpower" is clumsy ;) 07:22 * pasc wonders if any submitted a question about which teams could deal with additional manpower and why 07:22 perhaps he's just tag-teaming answers with overfiend.. 07:23 <@helix> Zugschlus: dunno, he said deutsche telekom, i don't know anything more than that :) 07:23 helix: I see 07:23 joeyh: tag-team scud? 07:23 -!- mykilx [mykilx@pool-71-98-178-44.tampfl.dsl-w.verizon.net] has left #debian-dpl-discuss ["Client exiting"] 07:23 peterS, hacim: i am asking to the moderators.. not just possible reasons 07:23 hacim, laborpower 07:23 biella: superpower 07:23 grrlpower 07:23 wondertwinspowerACTIVATE! 07:23 hacim: Super Cow Powers. 07:24 * o-o notes that Culus is not here. 07:24 (Type apt-get on the prompt, if you don't know.) 07:24 * Loevborg notes that being a non-native-speaker doesn't accelerate typing abilities in english. 07:24 * mdz moos 07:24 hehe, don't make me get out my irssi cowsay 07:24 <@helix> hm, speaking of mooing, wasn't Culus going to be in here? 07:25 hacim: I was repressing the same thing 07:25 moo. 07:25 Time! 07:25 enrico: mooooooooo 07:25 Loevborg: yes, it adds latency. 07:25 <@Rhonda> fabbione: He will most propably get a chance to answer it late in the second half. 07:25 Oh, much better paste. 07:25 argh 07:25 cutoff 07:25 Rhonda: ok, thanks 07:25 <@helix> oh my 07:25 Branden's line was cut 07:25 martin_krafft_: Branden is truncated 07:25 Oh, what a liar, he didn't go through a New Maintainer *process* at all 07:26 * gravity laughs at Walters 07:26 But truncated. 07:26 -!- tuyen (gaim) [~mcsushi@albator.cyber-networks.fr] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss 07:26 JWs Answer is fine as well 07:26 "it must be working well" 07:26 wow, Walther's answer was the most stupid shit ever 07:26 LOOOL 07:26 'if I just put my fingers in my ears, NM goes away! look!' 07:26 VOTE FOR ME! 07:26 BrandenRobinson: be more brief :) 07:26 daniels: You expected otherwise? 07:26 "It must be working well" 07:26 do we need a WikiWayOfWritingSkills part for the NM process as well? 07:27 * Zugschlus goes out fixing bugs in exim4 07:27 <@helix> heh 07:27 ew... wikis 07:27 -!- sabetts (sabetts) [~sabetts@pool-151-201-123-127.pitt.east.verizon.net] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss 07:27 daniels: well, he didn't say "I think we should adopt OpenBSD's process for adding new maintainers"... 07:27 Actually long answers are nice.. 07:27 <_rene_> vorlon: heh 07:27 part: No, but one of HowNotToEscalateFlameWars might be handy sometimes. 07:27 Dynamic loader in T&S? 07:27 possible question to the candidate: "Are you willing to go trough the NM process again, as a complete anonymous, and be tested again?" 07:27 vorlon: ha 07:27 vorlon: maybe we should, he'd be right out 07:28 we should Fast Track Theo De Raadt through NM 07:28 stouset: There's NM question template public somewhere... 07:28 The NM process kept me out. I don't know if that is an indication that it works or is broken. 07:28 -!- ukai (Fumitoshi UKAI) [~ukai@ns.ukai.debian.gr.jp] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss 07:28 * bdale notes that IanJ tried working on a doc about how to better communicate in Debian but got beaten down 07:28 will the public get a chance to vote for anything? 07:28 dbindner: considering the number of people who *do* churn through NM, I hardly think a good argument can be made that debian needs to stop excluding people via NM (: 07:28 Zugschlus: :-) 07:29 -!- stew [stew@mudskipper.vireo.org] has quit [Client Quit] 07:29 "we only have 600 people trying to join the project! quick, we need to make it less intimidating!" 07:29 -!- slef (MJ Ray) [ENoPulsar@81-86-163-141.dsl.pipex.com] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss 07:29 peterS: Hehe 07:29 peterS: it's a question of what we're filtering for. 07:29 stouset: the "dynamic loader" question is the one we use to identify candidates who should be made release assistants immediately after DAM approval. ;) 07:29 bdale: I remember that from ages ago... there was something about the way he did it iirc 07:29 truncate.... 07:29 bdale: yes, I seem to recall that the irony of him flaming people about the importance of a communication guide was too much to bear... :) 07:29 vorlon: oh, so I should cut that part of out my thesis lest you make me an RA? :) 07:30 gravity: yes. baby thrown out with bath water. we're good at that. 07:30 yeah, yeah, re-evaluate and kick out the lazy bums 07:30 :-) 07:30 Are we there yet? 07:30 bdale: true. if NM is not trying to filter for the ability to do real debian work and the ability to google for answers to technical questions, they're probably going about it wrong 07:30 peterS: The learning part of the process was very excellent, and I have never regretted the skills I learned. But the wait was very long, so I went on to other things. 07:30 bdale: Very true 07:30 Mithrandir: you're safe, we're already at our quota for UbuntuCabal members on the release team 07:30 martin_krafft_: if you're using irssi, there is a script that automatically splits replies if they exceed a maximum length 07:30 I think FreeBSD is doing formal mentoring, no? 07:30 dbindner: the wait has been largely eliminated, rumor has it 07:30 martin_krafft_: BrandenRobinson's latest response was truncated too 07:30 Is someone going to post a log of the debate at the end of it? 07:30 vorlon: ok, good. :) 07:30 martin_krafft_: would it be a good idea to paste each separate sentence of the responses? 07:30 vorlon: maybe UbuntuCabal and TheOtherRatherMoreSecretiveCabal can fight it out for control of the release team? :) 07:30 <@dondelelcaro> nyu: yeah, it was repeated correctly, though. 07:30 bignose-ork: he tried that. people complained. 07:30 <@helix> gravity: yeah 07:30 mm 07:30 daniels: thumb war 07:31 helix: Cool 07:31 daniels: in Vancouver 07:31 vorlon: one, two, three, four 07:31 -!- stew [stew@mudskipper.vireo.org] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss 07:31 Death Match Bites From Vancouver in Soviet Russia? 07:31 oh i see 07:32 gravity: in soviet russia, architectures drop YOU 07:32 Addition to Q3: What do you think about componentized linux? 07:32 -!- Paler6602 (Pal Bot XP Professional V3) [~PalPV3@218.79.199.56] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss 07:32 woohoo, AngusLees says we should put JW back through NM 07:32 he's got my vote 07:32 "JW: Who is our current DAM?" 07:32 trave11er: :-) 07:32 <@dondelelcaro> sanxiyn: expand on that... 07:32 <@helix> dato: hahahaha 07:32 trave11er, we have the same sense of humour. only you type faster. 07:32 <@helix> "What does ITP stand for?" 07:32 vorlon: yack. No. I also would never survive that ... 07:32 helix: Oh. 07:32 "What year is it?" 07:32 1992! 07:32 helix: lol 07:33 "Why is Debian called Debian?" 07:33 -!- ben_vos (Benjamin Mesing) [~ben_vos@212.204.39.239] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss 07:33 o-o: you wouldn't survive putting Jonathan through NM? 07:33 "Are nazis really bad people?" 07:33 mazzanet: because we all have too many shirts now to want to change? ;-) 07:33 Helix: intend to package 07:33 bwahaha 07:33 heh 07:33 <@helix> err 07:33 <_rene_> *g* 07:33 helix: Oh. 07:33 hard to shrink a project 07:33 helix: *thwaps self* 07:33 gravity: ummm, no need to invoke godwin's law 07:34 lilo: we are working hard on shrinking 07:34 lilo: just use the black choppers. 07:34 lilo: actually, it's pretty easy 07:34 <@helix> at least I didn't have to :) 07:34 vorlon: nope. I mean I would not survive the NM process. My process was sending a email: hey I got 5 packets. And back came: ok your in. 07:34 stouset: "Intent to package" 07:34 -!- mode/#debian-dpl-discuss [+o slef] by gort 07:34 helix: You can too if you want 07:34 bdale: it's easy in theory 07:34 bdale: hard to have it actually get done 07:34 lilo: you just have to piss off enough people to cause a fork 07:34 stouset: intend is verb, intent is noun... 07:34 bdale: the problem with a fork is that you might lose some of the people you actually wanted 07:34 bdale: okay, it's hard to shrink a project intentionally ;) 07:34 -!- jablko (gaim) [~jablko@d205-250-104-75.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss 07:34 <_mordechai> bdale, that's not really constructive 07:34 -!- Manoj (Manoj Srivastava ) [~srivasta@host-12-107-230-171.dtccom.net] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss 07:34 peterS: of course 07:35 <@dondelelcaro> See http://archimedes.ucr.edu/debian_dpl_debate for the current log if anyone missed the early part 07:35 -!- bjb (Brenda) [~bjb@ns1.linuxbutler.ca] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss 07:35 * lilo hums the Jeopardy theme again 07:35 question 3 is pretty loaded 07:35 Time? 07:35 Indeed. 07:35 -!- nilarcs (New Now Know How) [~chatzilla@211.144.200.15] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss 07:35 dondelelcaro: put the log in the topic so you won't have to repeat 07:35 answer it honestly that you think the project should shrink and you lose the votes of everyone in the demographic you believe should be shrunk 07:35 -!- Hashar [another@Hashar.wikipedia] has quit [Client Quit] 07:36 mmm 07:36 oh oh! Fire half the developers! 07:36 part: not a lot of space in the topic 07:36 grow of packages, arches, devels or users? 07:36 * lilo nods at peterS 07:36 Insta-shrink 07:36 <@dondelelcaro> part: I tried, but the topic has topiclock 07:36 bah, the users bit is silly, ok 07:36 dato: All of them. 07:36 * dondelelcaro isn't going to argue with chanserv 07:36 seriously, like half of the archive is probably junk 07:36 peterS: this is why a skillful politician always attacks their electorate one small chunk at a time, like Hitler did 07:36 trave11er: *cough* hotbabe *cough* 07:36 ........unless you believe the people to be downsized are exactly the people who didn't vote in the election anyway 07:36 _mordechai: depends on how bad the situation is. sometimes a fork can be a very productive thing to do. definitely causes enough disruption to leave in the pile of "last resort" tactics, though 07:36 chrisa: :-)) 07:36 Archive even has bogosort. Need more? 07:36 hmmm, downsizing your electorate 07:36 sanxiyn: .... 07:36 _mordechai: and to be absolutely clear, I am not suggesting it here 07:36 rightsizing your paradigm 07:37 <_mordechai> :) 07:37 I do wonder if anyone reads those linux gazettes in main 07:37 -!- tuyen [~mcsushi@albator.cyber-networks.fr] has left #debian-dpl-discuss [] 07:37 chrisa: don't think about removing them! 07:38 After we've got a large enough sample, I'll run them through dadadodo and get a montly dadaistic linux gazette 07:38 -!- waldi (Bastian Blank) [~waldi@bblank.thinkmo.de] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss 07:38 chrisa: I saw those the other day...why aren't they just included as one package? Would get too large? 07:38 stouset: No idea 07:38 so aj talked about my 4 things 07:38 bah, what was that piece in the answer? 07:38 well, "my", they were pretty much obvious 07:38 enrico: I thought that was called DWN 07:38 Do we really need all perl module packages...? 07:38 oh dear, branden is having a bad time of it 07:39 peterS: ? 07:39 MatthewGarret get my vote this term 07:39 Geez, they seem to be having some problems with copy/paste... 07:39 sanxiyn: They're used a hell of a lot more than the LG packages at least 07:39 :) 07:39 But if you argue perl, don't we have to remove the bazillion python modules too? 07:40 stouset: It's a difficult process. The moderators are doing as good a job as possible. 07:40 <@dondelelcaro> sanxiyn: alot of them are rather useful... but some of them probably should be gettisoned in favor of dh-make-perl 07:40 chrisa: python2.2-* should go after Sarge, IMO. 07:40 somebody could write a bot helped to moderate DPL debates 07:40 this is painful 07:40 live functions on IRC can be fairly stressful 07:40 mistakes happen 07:40 maybe they could cut out the static... 07:40 one thousand geeks can't make copy/paste work :-) 07:40 collecting answers and pasting them at the right time, in the right order 07:40 dondelelcaro: Yes, (simple) Perl module packaing is rather trivial. 07:40 what is MIA? 07:40 Missing In Action. 07:40 Missing In Actian 07:41 Missing In Action. 07:41 heh I like the dcc cahtter part. 07:41 Debian - it makes copy & paste so effective 07:41 Vietman lingo 07:41 dato: madduck said he would use one 07:41 but it doesn't seem to be the case here 07:41 i've seen meeting bots that would be useful in this situation, which a question queue, +m with voiced team members 07:41 thanks 07:41 proecess of detecting, mailing, and ultimately orphaning packages of maintainers no longer interested/active 07:41 MatthewGarrett: This I know. Just sympathizing with them. 07:41 -!- aeddan__ (Chris Anderson) [~aeddan@203.87.29.111] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss 07:41 lone soldier lost in the jungle maybe taken hostage by enemy combatants. 07:41 Xore: know any names of meeting bots? 07:41 but he comes off as breing pretty close to perfectionist at times 07:41 hacim: not offhand, unfortunately 07:41 MatthewGarrett: Didn't mean to come across as disparaging :-) 07:41 -!- changwoo (Changwoo Ryu) [cwryu@61.74.115.122] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss 07:42 Xore: been trying to find one for ages 07:42 free direct paste! 07:42 use it wisely 07:42 -!- Eno_ (eno) [~eno@68.202.141.212] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss 07:42 free paste and other adhesive prisoners 07:42 -!- hutigers (hutigers) [~hutigers@221.200.224.14] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss 07:43 hmmm, prisoners of adhesion? 07:43 -!- hutigers [~hutigers@221.200.224.14] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:43 * lilo goes back to reading 07:43 lol 07:43 oops 07:43 ok, proven: DD's can't paste. 07:43 hihi 07:43 lol 07:43 =) 07:43 someone, file a bug report. stat 07:43 -!- kib (kib) [natuser@adsl-68-248-211-140.dsl.sgnwmi.ameritech.net] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss 07:43 * enrico hugs Branden 07:43 Overfiend wants yyp 07:43 it's like watching a maths lecturer working the lights in the lecture theatre 07:43 diodesign: on DDs? 07:43 that's because overfiend is not using Emacs 07:43 if he's using 'screen' pasting facilities rather than mouse-based facilities, I wonder about him being in the X Strike Force 07:44 bab: totally! 07:44 <@Rhonda> joeyh: I guess Ganneff would appreciate a pasting T&S question in his templates. 07:44 yes. we need a bugzilla entry "debate". 07:44 peterS: lol 07:44 Manoj: Moderated as Insightful, 4. 07:44 bts even :| 07:44 Rhonda: lol2 07:44 wow 07:44 -!- gotomium (GOTO Masanori) [~gotom@www.jp.debian.org] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss 07:44 the other channel is too annoying to even watch 07:44 -!- hutigers (hutigers) [~hutigers@221.200.224.14] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss 07:44 my vote goes for one of them that can figure out how to copy and paist 07:44 ScottF-: haha 07:44 I may not be able to stay around to watch the end, maybe I'll wait for the edited transcript 07:44 ScottF-: so you wouldn't vote for madduck or overfiend.. 07:44 joeyh: We can't paste, so we just rewrite from scratch ;-) 07:45 <@Rhonda> ScottF-: My vote goes out for one who can figure out how to spell paste. 07:45 * lilo is old and needs sleep 07:45 <@dondelelcaro> Rhonda: glue 07:45 * mazzanet chloroforms lilo 07:45 -!- hutigers [~hutigers@221.200.224.14] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:45 * lilo thanks mazzanet for his ethical treatment of lilos 07:45 3 questions in 45 mins... 07:45 hehe 07:45 question 4 is numbered 5. 07:45 yup 07:45 * ore reads JW's answer as "I will do nothing" 07:45 <_mordechai> :D 07:45 bdale: good thing there's a time limit ;) 07:46 I wonder if it's a devious plot to throw off one of the candidates 07:46 hehe...it has been a long long day for me. NP Complete problems in computer algorithms 07:46 DDs can't cout 07:46 which is pretty much what's he's been doing for the past few years 07:46 -!- zzxxcc [~user@221.232.15.214] has left #debian-dpl-discuss ["Leave"] 07:46 ore: I think "do-nothing-DPL" was once the hot topic in a past vote? 07:46 yeah, we don't need to elect him to get him to do that 07:46 <@helix> Adrinael: I'm sure plenty of DDs know C++ 07:46 * lilo makes a note, someone add a numbering T&S question 07:46 Oops, +n 07:46 =) 07:47 vorlon: Zing! 07:47 (Was it Moshez Zadka?) 07:47 Adrinael: but can they spel? 07:47 sanxiyn: Yes 07:47 sanxiyn: yes 07:47 mmm 07:47 no JW nor AS for #3? 07:47 Adrinael: helen isn't a DD yet anyway, though, right? she doesn't have to be able to cout yet 07:47 Oh 07:47 peterS: she's probably in training 07:47 ah now branden's words make sense 07:47 Mithrandir: she's in DAM-wait mode already :) 07:47 Well, helen has been able to paste the questions, so it's quite evident that she's not a DD. 07:48 peterS: Funny, 3. 07:48 Adrinael: oh, point 07:48 okay, I have to stay for the SPI question 07:48 JW would say it's because she's a woman, of course 07:48 dato: i saw andreas at least for q3 07:48 interesting 07:48 whats this -vote? 07:48 <@Rhonda> lilo: One question was skipped, out of time problems, AIUI. 07:48 first it sounded like he'd critizise the social contract ;) 07:48 krooger is this year's moshez 07:48 mailing list debian-vote 07:48 <@dondelelcaro> mazzanet: debian-vote@lists.debian.org 07:48 dato: she is waiting to be appointed DAM? 07:48 oh 07:48 'as dpl i promise to do absolutely nothing' 07:48 mazzanet: if you don't know, you probably aren't a debian developer anyway so you can't vote 07:48 Zugschlus: heh 07:48 daniels: krooger is something else entirely. 07:48 mazzanet: it's the list where voting issues are discussed 07:48 <@dondelelcaro> Zugschlus: no, the wonderful stage known as damnation 07:48 daniels: that's not difficult.. you already do nothing ;) 07:48 krooger had better not ask for a recount 07:48 i see 07:48 fabbione: sure, but I'm not running for DPL :) 07:48 "As DPL I will ruin Debian-Women, because I hate them" 07:49 -!- scyrma (mat) [f745718b4a@222.90.36.61] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss 07:49 <@dondelelcaro> Manoj: should I ask for one instead? ;-P 07:49 bab: ah, thanks for the heads up. now I see it. 07:49 this one should be interesting to see the replies on... 07:49 * Rhonda votes daniels for true honesty. :) 07:49 ore, gravity: the point of a chatter channel isn't to put words in people's mouths. while it's amusing, I'd rather you didn't 07:49 ...then a paste to the wrong channel 07:49 <@Rhonda> mazzanet: http://lists.debian.org/debian-vote/ 07:50 peterS: Uh...? 07:50 -!- tove [~tove@pD9ED7314.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has left #debian-dpl-discuss [] 07:50 -!- t-macphail [~tmacphail@S0106000625d83f0e.vf.shawcable.net] has left #debian-dpl-discuss ["I'm gone"] 07:50 -!- panda|hp (Unknown) [~zhanght@219.238.229.136] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss 07:50 what's the point of martin pasting stuff from the candidates? 07:50 gravity: well, maybe that *is* the point of a chatter channel. I'd just rather not see it during an actual debate where people actually *can* say what they really mean. maybe that's just me 07:50 so we can see their answers? 07:50 <@dondelelcaro> bob2: to make sure that the candidates have exactly the same time to answer 07:50 <@slef> bob2: stop them editing after the close, I guess. 07:50 bob2: so that their answers aren't interspersed 07:51 bob2: to make sure they don't go over limit and to keep them in order 07:51 peterS: This is the whole point of the thing 07:51 -!- nilarcs [~chatzilla@211.144.200.15] has quit [Client Quit] 07:51 peterS: isn't the second half supposed to be like a real debate? 07:51 Manoj: if so, I didn't see the announcement of that format 07:51 i am going to head to bed...my brain is...well mush. P =? NP 07:51 -!- kylem (Kyle McMartin) [~kyle@CPE0030ab0b413b-CM023469906297.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss 07:52 -!- stouset [~stephen@adsl-211-18-221.asm.bellsouth.net] has left #debian-dpl-discuss [] 07:52 s/Garret/Garrett/ ? :) 07:52 the annoyance seems to outweigh those benefits 07:52 bob2: agreed 07:52 Manoj: yes 07:52 peterS: it was in the final announcement mail 07:52 peterS: from the announcement:The last 50 minutes of the debate will consist of a moderated (not censored) discussion between the chairs and the candidates, on #debian-dpl-debate. Helen and Martin will pose questions or topics for general discussion between the candidates. 07:52 Which is in topic 07:53 Okay, helen can't paste. 07:53 Manoj: right, ok. I still don't see how that changes whether the peanut gallery should be making up statements for the candidates, in real time 07:53 mmm, elderly developers 07:53 that's relative 07:53 Adrinael: she's prepared to be a DD 07:54 Maybe that was a practice run then. 07:54 <@helix> can people please stop putting down the moderators? 07:54 helix: it's only a little, harmless fun 07:54 -!- danly|wintermute [~dleslie@dhcp802-1-101.dsl.ucc-net.ca] has left #debian-dpl-discuss [] 07:54 save the venom for the candidates ;-) 07:54 Zugschlus: it contributes to the stress level 07:54 <@helix> well, it's also hard work for them 07:54 Zugschlus: actually, it's not harmless 07:54 mdz: Damn straight :-) 07:55 Zugschlus: whatever happens here, they see, and if there are problems before the comments, there might just be more problems afterwards ;) 07:55 helix: umm, even the candidates are being put down, so why should teh moderators be excempt? :P 07:55 ok, apologies. it's easy to follow the on-going joke. 07:55 No offence meant, sorry to all ^_^' 07:55 * enrico hugs helix 07:55 it *is* hard work, but it wouldn't have hurt to actually investigate line length limits and pasting techniques ahead of time 07:55 enrico: no sex please, we're geeks 07:55 "It needs to stop doing those things at once" 07:55 peterS: 20:20 hindsight 07:55 -!- Paler6602 [~PalPV3@218.79.199.56] has quit [Client Quit] 07:55 If Debian is a self organising project, why does it need a leader? 07:55 how come walther's response is coming before time is up? 07:55 Manoj: Because they are moderators? :-) 07:55 How come this reply came in before "Time"? 07:55 and if inability to paste is a DD trademark, this is not an insult either. I think. 07:56 are their plans to neaten up questions/responces in some kind of transcript. or are the IRC logs just going to be publicly released as is? 07:56 stop being dinks. there's no reason for complaining, as i'm sure an edited transcript will be pasted when it's done. 07:56 Pasted, but how? 07:56 Adrinael, pasted together. 07:56 ooh, walther doesn't know no one versus noone. 07:56 Valis-Nestrav: simple editing for aesthetics has not been ruled out. 07:56 * Adrinael doesn't dare holding breath 07:56 Excellent :D 07:56 Adrinael, do shut up. 07:56 Ah, Jonathan's even more hypocritical than anticipated 07:57 He's pretty unreal 07:57 ... than I anticipated, anyway 07:57 do I count as indian AND elderly developer? 07:57 if an edited transcript isn't done, then i'll do one, happy? stop complaining about people doing a good job. 07:57 <@Rhonda> Valis-Nestrav: The logs are going to be released. 07:57 Manoj: :-) 07:57 <@dondelelcaro> Manoj: hey, 2 out of three, and that ain't bad. 07:57 and I'm not aware of large Indian or elderly groups who'd like to contribute more to Debian but feel unable. I 07:57 heh 07:58 like AARP 07:58 large indians? 07:58 HUUUGE Indians 07:58 oh, large groups... 07:58 LucidIon: vote for Jonathan Walthers, and you're assured of not having a leader 07:58 If this goes on I'd call for an immediate re-evaluation for any DD who votes him above "no fucking way". :-/ (No, not really, but still ...) 07:58 -!- xinming (XinmingLai) [XinmingLai@60.180.94.242] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss 07:58 * jaldhar is elderly, Indian...and large :( 07:58 biella: I am pretty large too. 07:58 jaldhar: ;-) 07:58 you are Manoj you make for numbers in size :-) 07:58 if diversity is important, it probably won't create itself 07:59 large personality that is Manoj :-) 07:59 or maybe it already has 07:59 and when my daughter thinks I've done good, she says "papa, you're a big lady" 07:59 socioeconomic stratification... i'll be damned 07:59 so I've got all the demographics covered 07:59 <@helix> jaldhar: heh 08:00 "Make sure there are no barriers that unfairly affect certain groups" 08:00 Woohoo! My question! 08:00 oh.... 08:00 Does language count as one? 08:00 nice question 08:00 Altered a bit 08:00 * bdale fears his children have picked up much of his lingo... 08:00 ah, I like this one. 08:00 I'm still waiting for the benefits of including a wider demographic in debian development circles 08:00 how many questions are there? 08:00 Hehehehe... and only two minutes... ouch ;) 08:00 gravity: good question 08:00 trave11er: this one is the last one, as helen said 08:00 l10n is the only one I've actually seen 08:00 bdale: Did your daughter give her talk on tuxracer yet? 08:00 dato: oh, didn't notice 08:00 * gravity thinks it so cool that she's doing that 08:00 Obviously, Debian has high barrier against people with poor English. 08:01 <@Rhonda> sanxiyn: Not as long as it's english. :) 08:01 <@dondelelcaro> gravity: wasn't that at lwce boston? 08:01 well for Indians, lack of bandwidth is a big barrier in participating in free software projects 08:01 gravity: it's at LCA 08:01 dondelelcaro: Nope 08:01 gravity: next month 08:01 <@dondelelcaro> oh, right. lca. 08:01 Mithrandir: Ah, ok 08:01 Learning English was damn difficult, I must say... 08:01 * dondelelcaro has all of the conferences muddled together in his brain 08:01 <@Rhonda> sanxiyn: There are usually quite some native speakers in most countries that are willing to help. 08:01 Rhonda: ? 08:01 sanxiyn: don't feel bad, it's a skill few Americans have truly mastered 08:02 bdale: Wish her luck :-) 08:02 <@Rhonda> sanxiyn: What's your native language? 08:02 Rhonda: Korean. 08:02 (Modern Korean, standard Seoul dialect, etc.) 08:02 gravity: will do. she's looking forward to it, but I fear I underestimated just how much attention she'd get from this. the first zdnet.au article caught me by surprise. 08:02 <@Rhonda> sanxiyn: AFAIK there are some developers in korea which should be more than just willing to help. 08:03 Yeah. "Rely on the other developers to help me out". 08:03 -!- stew [stew@mudskipper.vireo.org] has quit [Client Quit] 08:03 bdale: Yeah, I'm not sure why it's newsworthy... but it is very cool 08:03 Rhonda: I know, and actually I met them. 08:03 Like making another dozen of NMUs for a base package necessary 08:03 -!- irc_carrot (ircmonkey) [irc_carrot@61.169.31.4] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss 08:03 I remember meeting extremely skillful people in Taiwan, which had very well done packages but with very poor descriptions 08:03 gravity: novelty value mostly, I think 08:03 Zugschlus: are you talking about debootstrap? 08:03 bdale: Yeah, probably 08:03 Rhonda: But it's not like you can get free translation service for reporting bugs to BTS. No? 08:03 why did none of the candidates answer the question about what the benefits are to diversifying debian? can it be that nobody can think of any benefits, but everyone is afraid to say "AFAICT it doesn't actually help debian to be heterogeneous"? 08:03 Mithrandir: no, ifupdown 08:03 coming 08:03 You looked at the desc first, and thought: "oh, this is bad". Then looked at the package debian/* and said "wow!" 08:04 "I am accustomed to controversy." 08:04 Zugschlus: ok; it seems to me that aj's style is doing development where NMUs are encouraged. 08:04 Rhonda: (met Changwoo Ryu and Yooseong Yang, for what it's worth) 08:04 keysigning is another barrier in some regions, aprt from the language barrier 08:04 Hmm. how do we handle a dpl resignation? 08:04 Mithrandir: have you ever worked with a bug list _that_ large? 08:04 dato: ;-) 08:04 Rhonda: To be frank, BTS even doesn't *display* euc-kr encoded mail correctly. 08:04 <@Rhonda> sanxiyn: Developer's should be able to deal with not too good english in bugreports anyway, so it might not be your problem, as long as you try. 08:05 * sanxiyn should have reported that as bug against bts. 08:05 peterS: if there's a hugely skewed demographic to debian, then perhaps debian is missing out on the valuable inputs of all those who feel unable to participate 08:05 <@slef> Manoj: with difficulty? 08:05 <@Rhonda> sanxiyn: You can still do it. :) 08:05 * enrico appreciates "I am accustomed to controversy" 08:05 Rhonda: It's a high barrier. Don't underestimate language barrier. 08:05 No doubt on that 08:05 plypkie: that's the usual line. I know, I've heard it. I just wonder if anyone can point to any evidence that this actually happens 08:05 Zugschlus: dpkg and mailman 08:05 thank you moderators! 08:05 <@dondelelcaro> sanxiyn: it should display it correctly, ignoring the subject and from parts. 08:05 Mithrandir: ok, granted. 08:05 -!- irc_carrot [irc_carrot@61.169.31.4] has left #debian-dpl-discuss [] 08:05 <@Rhonda> sanxiyn: No, I'm not. That's why I'm in the german translation team, for a start. :) 08:05 helen, martin_krafft_ : go moderators go! 08:05 -!- v` [~v@115-130-114-200.fibertel.com.ar] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss 08:05 -!- v` is v 08:05 dondelelcaro: It wasn't, last time I tried. 08:05 martin_krafft_: hang in there 08:06 good stuff after the first difficulties. 08:06 plypkie: obviously there are things that the 6 billion people in the world who aren't debian developers could possibly contribute. but is it more likely that a demographically balanced set of them would contribute more than a homogeneous set? 08:06 <@dondelelcaro> sanxiyn: if there's a specific problem, please send a message with the offending problem to submit@bugs.donarmstrong.com for the Package: test 08:06 helen, martin_krafft_, you're doing a fine job, don't let nay-sayers get to you. 08:06 sanxiyn: you may have to select a character set manually in your browser. 08:06 <@dondelelcaro> sanxiyn: ideally with a screenshot of what it's supposed to look like ;-) 08:06 kylem: there are nay sayers? 08:06 -!- hutigers (hutigers) [~hutigers@221.200.224.14] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss 08:06 dondelelcaro: Will do. 08:06 Yeah, good job, don't mind the too-long-ongoing joke =) 08:07 sanxiyn: your english is enough. :P shyness is the real barrier to not-so-well-speaking-english people. 08:07 Manoj, it would appear so. 08:07 changwoo: True. :-) 08:07 kylem: where? 08:07 her her, the folks in the debate channel are doing an awesome job 08:07 dondelelcaro: there's nothing in the BTS that handles charset conversion, or even setting an HTTP encoding header based on the corresponding mail headers. 08:07 peterS: because people who have fundamentally different life experiences will probably have new things to say that you or i haven't thought of 08:07 -!- Th3R4t (nobody) [~nobody@TheRAt.active.supporter.pdpc] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss 08:07 kylem, if you refer to me, apologies, it was a joke-too-far. 08:07 plypkie: that sounds nice too. examples? 08:07 I see humour challenged people, but no nay sayers 08:07 <@Rhonda> sanxiyn: Unfortunately not all developers are behaving well... But pretty please don't let them hush you away... 08:08 Manoj, it's all fun and games until someone loses an eye. 08:08 or something. 08:08 <@dondelelcaro> vorlon: my patch for #61342 does all of that. 08:08 Adrinael, nobody in particular. 08:08 dondelelcaro: oh, well then. :) 08:08 ... then its a sport 08:08 Valis-Nestrav: no 08:08 <@dondelelcaro> vorlon: however, it's possible that the conversion from exotic charsets to UTF-8 is broken 08:08 plypkie: do you find it likely that these 'new things to say' will fix bugs, for example? 08:08 Valis-Nestrav: then it's hilarious 08:08 * trave11er hugs kylem 08:08 -!- snakeru (snakeru) [~snakeru@host-80-95-32-178.leasedlines.sura.ru] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss 08:08 :-) 08:08 dondelelcaro: this patch has been applied recently? 08:08 ... @ all fun and games till someone looses an eye cliche 08:08 trave11er, heh. 08:08 peterS: there is more to debian than fixing bugs, and there is more to software than technical correctness 08:08 dondelelcaro: euc-kr isn't exotic (as in the sense iconv supports it.) 08:08 <@dondelelcaro> vorlon: no, unfortunatly. 08:08 kylem: overstating issues and seeing nay sayers in every shadow is also damaging ;-) 08:08 bab: for example? 08:09 <@dondelelcaro> sanxiyn: well, to a roman alphabet only person it is... ;-) 08:09 dondelelcaro: right, so my statement stands as applied to the present BST 08:09 BTS 08:09 Manoj, fair enough. 08:09 peterS: well, usability for one 08:09 -!- dbindner [~dbindner@vh224401.truman.edu] has quit [Client Quit] 08:09 -!- jdub (Jeff Waugh) [~jdub@home.waugh.id.au] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss 08:09 <_mordechai> peterS, forming a community 08:09 <@dondelelcaro> vorlon: yeah, that's why I wanted to see the message sent to submit@bugs.donarmstrong.com, not submit@bugs.debian.org... ;-) 08:09 bab: what about debian package maintenance do you think would benefit from the perspective of a large number of people from a demographic we don't have? 08:09 peterS: documentation for another, evangelism for another. etc etc. all of these are not black-and-white technical correctness issues 08:09 dondelelcaro: heh. 08:09 peterS: i'd rather not carry this conversation on the debate channel 08:09 * LucidIon finds it amusing when a flawless post in English is followed by a message to the effect 'Sorry about the how bad my English is' in equally flawless English. 08:09 Geez... it is so damn late 08:09 peterS: well, it's all too common for men to not notice discrimination against women. so what are we missing that women could tell us? in the simple case, there could be usability issues, but there are probably many more 08:10 peterS: in fact, i'd rather not at all, my attention will be devoted to the debate in a few minutes 08:10 bah 08:10 plypkie: I'm intrigued. what usability issues are sex-linked? 08:10 gravity: too damn early! 08:10 ore: That too! 08:10 * slef finally snarfs coffee 08:10 peterS: language is one (including metaphores such as symbols) 08:11 ore: and "just fine" somewhere, too =) 08:11 dato: I guess :) 08:11 peterS: They're not per se, but in our culture wmen tend to notice them more 08:11 LucidIon: You are amused, but a person in question *is* nervous about not being understood. 08:11 using metaphors as symbols is sex linked? 08:11 * Manoj is very confused 08:11 LucidIon: (I used to add "Sorry about my English etc" coda, but I don't now.) 08:11 Manoj: using sex-biased language and symbols is sex linked :) 08:11 Don't get in to sex linkage discussion. mjg59 has to concentrate on the debate 08:11 enrico: I already noted that l10n is the one benefit I've seen so far from diversity in the development community. I was wondering if there were any others 08:11 And I really don't want to talk genetics right now 08:12 <@slef> "Mi pardonpetas pri eraroj" 08:12 enrico: really? I have seen both men and woemn do that, so which sex is it linked to? 08:12 <@slef> gravity: oh, I thought you were referring to flaming plastic. 08:12 <@Rhonda> fabbione, Loevborg: Just in case you aren't currently paying attention, AndreasSchuldei has his aftertime for Q1. :) 08:12 slef: He's a geneticist 08:12 Rhonda, I'm watching :) thanks. 08:12 -!- xinming [XinmingLai@60.180.94.242] has quit [Client Quit] 08:12 Rhonda: thanks. i am reading :-) 08:13 -!- sether [~sether@69-166-98-252.vnnyca.adelphia.net] has left #debian-dpl-discuss ["Leaving"] 08:13 -!- xinming (XinmingLai) [XinmingLai@60.180.94.242] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss 08:13 sanxiyn: The reason it's actually amusing it that it preceeds or follows one by someone who doesn't know what punctuation is or the location of the caps lock key. 08:13 d 08:13 is there a live irc log of the debate channel somewhere? I missed the first 15-ish minutes due to this being in the middle of the night 08:13 peterS: and that is much more linked to geographical diversity, as opposed to sex based one 08:13 <@dondelelcaro> http://archimedes.ucr.edu/debian_dpl_debate for the current log if anyone missed the early part 08:13 <@martin_krafft_> Mithrandir: no, sorry. 08:13 sanxiyn: yes, if you know the word "coda", you shouldn't be adding such a coda. ;) 08:13 <@dondelelcaro> Mithrandir: see above 08:13 <@Rhonda> Mithrandir: http://archimedes.ucr.edu/debian_dpl_debate for the current log if anyone missed the early part 08:13 dondelelcaro, ah nice, thanks ;) 08:13 dondelelcaro: great, thanks 08:13 <@martin_krafft_> Rhonda: nice. :) 08:14 <@dondelelcaro> you can just reload as much as you want... it's basically what irssi-text is logging, and it's pretty close to realtime 08:14 <@Rhonda> martin_krafft_: Thank dondelelcaro, not me. :) 08:14 Manoj: yes, exactly. I was wondering why none of the candidates answered the question about the benefits of a diverse developer population and wondered if anyone here could name any. not just sex diversity 08:14 sanxiyn: If it's something I'm replying on, I'd compliment them on their English. 08:14 <@martin_krafft_> peterS: okay. we'll see what i can do. 08:15 peterS: well, you also gedt software diversity. like kanji input software is rarely used by english only speakers 08:15 peterS: the obvious answer for non-english speakers is wider translation to non-english languages 08:15 Manoj: true. that's part of l10n, sort of 08:15 <_mordechai> woo, a DPL who cannot do /help ignore 08:15 <_mordechai> heh 08:15 plypkie: yep. as I said. 08:15 LucidIon: That's very nice. You know how much they would get confident by your compliment? :-) 08:15 <@martin_krafft_> _mordechai: whatever. 08:15 Yes, clearly anyone who doesn't spend hours fiddling with his IRC client isn't fit to lead a serious software project 08:16 <@slef> _mordechai: are we voting for IRC skills?-) 08:16 peterS: ok. what about things like displaying saying from the Bhagavata Geeta in English? 08:16 <@Rhonda> _mordechai: It's not in the T&S questions. Figure. : 08:16 <_mordechai> slef, no 08:16 peterS: not i10n, but most likely to come from an indian developer 08:16 * joeyh wonders where the xchat button for conference mode went 08:16 _mordechai, irssi is pretty non-inutuitive anyway. 08:16 * slef washes vorlon's dripping sarcasm 08:16 Manoj: is that a benefit to diversity, or a drawback? people keep trotting that one out along with bible-kjv as stuff that arguably shouldn't be shipped (: 08:16 joeyh: yeah. seems to have vanished recently 08:16 Manoj: or utf8 support which is often pressed by english speakers who don't have to care about backwards compatibility. 08:16 Loevborg: most, if not all irc clients are 08:17 <@Rhonda> May I suggest to take the BTS discussion somewhere else, please? It's already quite crowdy without it. Thanks for understanding. :) 08:17 used to be on the right of the input area didn't it? 08:17 If was pretty easy to do a /ignore #debian-dpl-debate * PARTS QUITS NICKS, which then had an unfortunate effect. 08:17 peterS: the geeta is not religious 08:17 <_mordechai> joeyh, right click on the channel tab 08:17 part, you have a point there. 08:17 Manoj: ??? 08:17 peterS: it is tactical advice 08:17 * joeyh does this and gets the ion tab menu :-P 08:17 -!- siretart (Reinhard Tartler) [siretart@tauware.de] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss 08:18 tabs are for WMs, not apps 08:18 Mithrandir: UTF-8 will save the world 08:18 (Eh, Unicode) 08:18 jaldhar: mostly the geeta is how to live ones life, and rises above the religion side. It is philosophy of life more than worship vishnu and thou shalt be happy 08:18 -!- GenKreton [~kreton@h000625d7ea72.ne.client2.attbi.com] has quit [Client Quit] 08:18 Manoj: 'anarchism' isn't religious either but it's drawn its share of fire for being useless archive bloat 08:18 Why is martin throwing funny unicode characters at AngusLee? 08:18 sanxiyn: you don't have fifty gigabytes of legacy documents, I understand? 08:19 Manoj: How 'bout quotes from Analects of Confucius? :-) 08:19 what are these unicode symbols madduck is using? 08:19 peterS: hey, vi is useless archive bloat :P 08:19 not in my font. 08:19 -!- migus (Pierre Machard) [~migus@netu.naquadah.org] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss 08:19 Mithrandir: I can do iconv. 08:19 Manoj: more to the point, N-1 versions of vi are (: 08:19 sanxiyn: iconv fucks up any binary formats. 08:19 Mithrandir: Oh sure. 08:19 joeyh: It was a spade in mine 08:19 sanxiyn: or from the art of war. or the I ching. 08:19 <_mordechai> joeyh, arabic, here 08:19 Why do all of our DPL candidates smell? 08:19 Manoj: Or Holy Quran. 08:19 womble++ 08:19 womble: Smell of what? 08:19 lol 08:20 sanxiyn: that one is religious 08:20 gravity: Just a general odour, apparently 08:20 Manoj: yes but the life it is recommending to lead is a religious one. It only doesn't seem that way because there is no seperation of religious and secular in Hinduism 08:20 Why doesn't irssi support /ignore STUFFIWANTNOTWHATISAY 08:20 womble: ew 08:20 -!- _pronik (Nikolai Prokoschenko) [~nikolai@217.7.11.148] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss 08:20 -!- easthero [~easthero@220.248.180.2] has left #debian-dpl-discuss ["quit"] 08:20 <@dondelelcaro> Adrinael: it does, actually. 08:20 martin_krafft_: yeah, technically a /me is a CTCP ACTION, so ignore CTCPS will probably take that out 08:20 Manoj: And Geeta is not? 08:20 dondelelcaro, with a visible and intuitive action as a result =) 08:20 voting futher discussion seems more and more appealing 08:20 Oh man.. what is this? Battle Royale? 08:20 jaldhar: umm, it is a one that lioes within a system of ethica, but that could apply as well to an athiest like me 08:20 joeyh, I get a "007f" box in xchat 08:21 "the mailing list"? 08:21 * bab settles back in his seat and watches the show 08:21 hacim: -vote 08:21 Loevborg: then your font does not have a glyph for that codepoint (U+007F) 08:21 <@slef> hacim: http://lists.debian.org/debian-vote/ perhaps 08:21 Manoj: the idea religion = theism is a western one :) 08:21 <@dondelelcaro> Adrinael: sure, that's why you run /ignore; right after you run the command. That tells you exactly what is being ignored 08:21 wait, U+007F is a glyph? I thought that was just delete 08:21 daniels: Umm,, that's the DEL key, that usually doesn't have a glyph 08:21 * joeyh would need a magnifying glass to read that missing glyph contents 08:21 oh, right 08:21 0x7f usually means somebody's UTF-8 support is broken 08:22 (the one who pasted stuff) 08:22 -!- mhatta- [~mhatta@oscar.opensource.jp] has left #debian-dpl-discuss ["Leaving"] 08:23 There was a fire in the stables. When the Master returned from court, he asked: "Was anybody hurt?" He didn't ask about the horses. -- Analects X.12. 08:23 you know, this debate is way better than the ones we used to have 08:23 * joeyh cheers on mjg's agressive behavior 08:23 -!- Rince (Auf dem Datenhighway to Hell...) [rince@angua.rince.de] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss 08:23 joeyh: he's been trying to cut down, though. Since 7 hours ago 08:23 ;) 08:23 actually our technical infrastructure at linuxworld was very bad 08:24 jaldhar: bwahaha :) 08:24 I was hoping to see more interaction 08:24 oh that isn't what walther meant? 08:24 <@slef> vorlon: while he slept? 08:24 jaldhar: Sadly true :-) 08:24 jaldhar, that's cause you had Sun junk ;-) 08:24 What is with krooger and the "grand motivational statements" -- " Who here is up to that challenge?" 08:24 * Loevborg loves the way JW ends every answer with a rhetoric question, 08:24 haha 08:24 The first candidate replying to JW's provocations gets one penalty mark 08:24 kylem: yeah Debian and Sun is like charlie brown and that football 08:25 actually, I cheered mjg59's outburst, myself 08:25 "JonathanWalther: how many BTS do you know?" 08:25 oh man 08:25 If our BTS is the best in the world then why doesn't anyone else use it? 08:25 Hm, what others think about Bugzilla, compared to debbugs or GNATS? 08:25 jaldhar, *nod* 08:26 gravity: btw, did you see I managed to get bug deps working? 08:26 sucks to have to use a web interface 08:26 maybe you can use that for your thing (maybe not..) 08:26 joeyh: Just read your blog. 08:26 joeyh: Yeah! I may just do it. You are the perl master. 08:26 <@helix> go joeyh 08:26 "the biggest problem is people with thin skins" 08:26 mmm, thin skins 08:26 I like the email based nature of our stuff, now that mime attachements work 08:26 joeyh: I'm still writing it as an app separate from debbugs, but it should help overall I think 08:26 gravity: it's only the best BTS in the world for projects that look something like debian 08:26 -!- kib [natuser@adsl-68-248-211-140.dsl.sgnwmi.ameritech.net] has left #debian-dpl-discuss [""All it takes to fly is to hurl yourself at the ground... and miss." -Douglas Adams"] 08:27 jaldhar: oh, but The Register says Sun is basing their entire chip strategy on Debian, how could that be? 08:27 peterS: I think it's a social issue actuall. Nat Friedman clued me in by accident 08:27 vorlon, url/ 08:27 damn 08:27 vorlon: you're kidding!!! 08:27 I did agree with kroooger on the last one 08:27 thin skins 08:27 hmmm 08:27 kylem: hellifIknow, it's the crap coverage The Register gave to the "Debian is dropping ports!!!1!!1oneone" story 08:27 vorlon, there's still half a month til april fools... 08:27 6 actively talking people is kind of beyond the limit for a discussion, it seems 08:27 * Manoj goes off to wash his mouth with soap 08:27 Bugzilla hell. 08:27 what does "blow off steam" mean? 08:27 vorlon, i still think benc's glorious return to activity is funny. 08:27 sex? 08:27 martin_krafft quick example debian-qa versus debian-devel ... 08:28 Personally I like Roundup, and then RT, but... 08:28 sanxiyn, I seriously consider the BTS one of the weakest parts of debian. 08:28 the wounded prima donna syndrome 08:28 dato: to relieve stress by venting 08:28 dato, vent their aggression. 08:28 Loevborg: Why? 08:28 -!- v` [~v@115-130-114-200.fibertel.com.ar] has quit [Client Quit] 08:28 <@dondelelcaro> dato: vague reference to steam boilers, where if you don't vent off pressure, the boiler explodes, killing everyone in the vicinity 08:28 silly question: who actually is voting? 08:28 <@Rhonda> dato: to blow one's stack [Amer.] [sl.] - Dampf ablassen 08:28 <@Rhonda> to let off steam [fig.] - Dampf ablassen [fig.] 08:28 Manoj: yeah, remember the mob mentality. you're not allowed to agree with krooger on *any* issue 08:28 -!- hooty [39nw2kqhPG@nightcrawler.kuroneko.ca] has quit [Client Quit] 08:28 kylem: what's funny is that he complains about not being *involved*, when the 5 RC bugs people are complaining about are on a package he's the maintainer of 08:28 Valis-Nestrav: Debian Developers. 08:28 not just aggression, could be frustration, tension, etc 08:28 kylem: Yeah, maybe he'll finally work on d-i for sparc :-p 08:28 sanxiyn, you can't do fulltext search, for one. 08:28 ok, thanks. /me was imagining thinks. 08:28 gravity, doubtful. 08:28 Go Gus! 08:29 loevborg: it's called google 08:29 gravity, from his behaviour about ieee1394, he only started paying attention after a friend of mine submitted a patch changing MAINTAINERS... 08:29 vorlon, heh. 08:29 jaldhar: That's not the answer though... 08:29 kylem: That sounds about right, given the silo crap 08:29 vorlon, that's hilarious. 08:29 Can we see something other than overfiend and krooger giving mutual blowjobs? 08:29 <@Rhonda> dato: To do workout, or play halflife... :) 08:29 jaldhar, must be much more sophisticated than that! 08:29 jaldhar, searching should be _key_ to a good bts. 08:29 womble: if you dislike it's up to you to /part 08:29 womble: Yeah. I want blood. 08:30 Rhonda: blowing one's stack is *not* synonymous with blowing off steam. 08:30 "Smaller, focused lists don't seem to have problem" -- how true is this? 08:30 rather. 08:30 depends. I have seen some pretty nasty stuff on -kernel 08:30 <@Rhonda> vorlon: Feel free to bug http://dict.leo.org/ :) 08:30 sanxiyn: True, although things still do erupt 08:30 <@slef> womble: please be less graphic. 08:30 migus: Or we could have a debate and discussion instead of the candidates all patting each other on the back 08:30 sanxiyn, it's true! 08:30 ie, debian-boot (which is not too small, but is focused) has had one flamewar in the past 2 years. 08:30 loevborg: usually I've only needed to search by package and debbugs is adequate for that. bugzilla etc. is just overkill 08:30 martin_krafft_, i think this is fine, it will be much more readable later with a bit of cleaning up, but i think this is the best that can be done. 08:30 JW is doing a really good job of channeling all attention on him 08:30 <@Rhonda> vorlon: I'm no native speaker, so I can't tell. 08:31 martin_krafft_: Answer + Rebuttal Phase! 08:31 but yes, larger less focussed groups have higher incidence of heated disagreements 08:31 martin_krafft_: Two parts 08:31 sanxiyn, look at the "cario graphics" mailing list as an examle. 08:31 LWN headine: "Arseholes have thin skins -- Jonathan Walther" 08:31 joeyh: :-) 08:31 <@slef> womble: hey, suggest questions or comment constructively. 08:31 womble: now now, don't be insulting the dwn editors. they might have thin skins. 08:31 jaldhar, I'm not saying bugzilla is the answer (although it is better) 08:31 peterS: *L*WN... 08:31 joeyh: I really think -boot is special though. It's like a haven of sanity in an insane project 08:31 womble: oh, right 08:32 but the smaller groups also tend to be more technical, and less likely to deal with objective, far reaching issues 08:32 slef: Yeah, there's such a high concentration of useful questions here 08:32 -!- Lightning|Zzzz [~Administr@218.80.82.79] has quit ["离开"] 08:32 * joeyh can't recall any flamewars on -cd 08:32 -legal is pretty small compared to most lists, but has more than its fair share of heated discussions 08:32 * sanxiyn is a big fan of comp.lang.python, by the way. 08:32 probaly had a few on -release 08:32 <@slef> womble: you're not helping. 08:32 you can't eliminate insults, but you can craft a culture such as that people who are recognised as doing nothing but insulting are either dismissed as arseholes or severely discouraged from doing so 08:32 I never was any flamewar on -qa or on -www 08:32 <@Rhonda> womble: That doesn't make plain abuses better, that there doesn't pop up useful questions, you know. 08:32 quoth the raven, /ignore 08:33 * womble goes through the history looking for all of slef's constructive questions 08:33 -!- trave11er [~jurijus@d141-164-215.home.cgocable.net] has quit [Client Quit] 08:33 Manoj, being small isn't sufficient condition, but it does help a lot. 08:33 wow, this is nice :D 08:33 -!- nyu [~rmh@nyu.developer.debian] has left #debian-dpl-discuss [] 08:33 Really seems to bring out everyones opinions :D 08:33 migus: eh, I do remember some issue on -qa... I believe it was this ndis-wrapper bullshit 08:33 oh boy. 08:34 Go JW. 08:34 <@Rhonda> migus: Uhm, there were some flamewars on -www. :) 08:34 Thin skins combined with assholes? That adds up to what, hemmorhoids? 08:34 Rhonda: nothing comparable with -devel :) 08:34 vorlon, have you seen team america? there's three kinds of people in the world... 08:34 <@Rhonda> migus: Of course not. You only get quality flames on -www. ,) 08:34 vorlon: was going to say it but couldn't spell it 08:34 vorlon: That's exactly what people get when reading -devel :-/ 08:34 kylem: sadly, I haven't 08:34 daniels: but otherwise reasonable people sometimes lose their cool. or the words are interpreted as being more imflammatory than the poster meant them to be 08:34 vorlon, you're not missing much, but that line is funny. 08:34 -!- sugarmice (Tim Cutts) [~tim@cpc2-cmbg5-6-0-cust155.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss 08:34 vorlon: "buy some preparation-H before you vote..." 08:35 ouch 08:35 Hoppefuly we have the DWN that makes good summary of our activity 08:35 thanks to Joey 08:35 * mazzanet hugs irc logs 08:35 migus: funny. even dwn was flamed for blackballing people and providing biased reporting 08:36 <@Rhonda> migus: Joey can't be everywhere. He really encourages help. 08:36 OK, here's a question for the candidates: Do you feel it is appropriate to delegate new people to a position within Debian without the support of the individuals already delegated, should that need arise? 08:37 I think worse than flamewars are low-level frames that last for hundreds of posts 08:37 reading Debian lists seems too daunting: 08:37 "is not" 08:37 <_mordechai> OK this stopped being interesting, Thanks and goodbye! 08:37 "is to0!" 08:37 -!- _mordechai [~noident@91967496cb5de168.node.tor] has left #debian-dpl-discuss ["Leaving"] 08:37 "is not!" 08:37 "is toO!" 08:37 I think idealists and utopians will always flame more because they have so much more emotional investment in their arguments 08:37 "Implying that the general subscribership of -legal is basically nuts isn't very nice" 08:37 Well, I got the impression that some DDs strongly believe that -legal is nuts. 08:38 (was it Sven Luther?) 08:38 jaldhar: no, they will not 08:38 jaldhar: that defines free software contributors 08:38 -!- sugarmice [~tim@cpc2-cmbg5-6-0-cust155.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has left #debian-dpl-discuss [] 08:38 <@dondelelcaro> sanxiyn: yes, it was sven luther who said that... but then, the thread that spawned that pretty much speaks for itself, IMO 08:38 sanxiyn: Regardless of the truth or not of the statement, it still isn't nice... 08:38 Manoj: that's why "be nice" will never work in Debian 08:39 sanxiyn: hell no. legal is pretty decent for performing analysis of licenses 08:39 sanxiyn: Among others 08:39 sanxiyn, -legal is very useful. some of it's analysis just aren't popular. this isn't their fault, it's the project's for being inflexible. 08:39 sanxiyn: indeed, they are our domain experts, such as we have, on those issues 08:39 Manoj: I just claimed that sizeable number of developers believe otherwise (regardless of fact) 08:39 The problem isn't -legal's legal advice, it's -legal's DFSG interpretation 08:40 sanxiyn: and I am saying that is not a fact -- depending on how you define "sizable" 08:40 Okay. 08:40 sanxiyn, we voted in favour of a few GRs that say otherwise. 08:40 sweet, MatthewGarrett banned JW from -women? I didn't know he had that kind of cabal power, he's got my vote now 08:40 <@martin_krafft_> womble: elaborate... 08:40 vorlon, lol. 08:40 Can I get a retraction on that comment by krooger? I don't have admin powers over any list 08:40 <@martin_krafft_> 08:40 <+AndreasSchuldei> could that community question person elaborate on the 08:40 <@martin_krafft_> context, for a more sensible answer? 08:40 -!- Huahua [~hua@61.235.118.66] has quit [Client Quit] 08:40 -!- nota (Jesus Roncero) [~golan@ciriusgw.us.es] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss 08:40 Hail cabal! 08:40 <@dondelelcaro> gravity: there are a significant number of contributors to -legal, all of whom have slightly different interpretations of the DFSG 08:40 <@helix> womble: noted 08:40 -!- kevinator [~kevin@cpe-24-58-4-55.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 08:40 -!- Huahua (Huang Jiahua) [~hua@61.235.118.66] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss 08:40 gravity: which dfsg interpretation? 08:41 let's just leave it at krooger apparently not knowing who are list admins are... 08:41 dondelelcaro: I know. I take issue with a certain subset of contributers, who often post the most text to the list 08:41 among other things 08:41 Manoj: ^ 08:41 joeyh, people suprised ~= 0. :) 08:41 joeyh: Or much of anything else 08:41 <@dondelelcaro> gravity: then disagree with specific interpretations of the DFSG... the list is, as a whole, just a mailing list. 08:41 joeyh: what? but that doesn't cast him in the worst possible light. that would be actually giving him the benefit of the doubt 08:42 martin_krafft_: request: can you please restrict your role to steering the debate, and not rebutting specific developers? 08:42 martin_krafft_: IMHO person-specific rebuttals should be left to the other candidates 08:42 martin_krafft_: and not the moderator (who has a uniquely elevated voice) 08:42 dondelelcaro: That's rather cumbersome to say, in all honesty. And some of what appears to be the majority consensus of -legal I disagree with 08:42 He's acting like he's got parliamentary privilege already... yeesh... 08:43 it's outrageous 08:43 he does owe you an apology 08:43 womble: he's trying to divert himself from "I was shitting on the list" to "I was a victim" 08:43 <@martin_krafft_> bab: mh. 08:43 enrico: Right 08:43 enrico: Heh 08:43 enrico: +1 08:43 womble: calling names of people just to increase the attention around it 08:43 He's a showboat 08:44 Funniest thing is, I do squat in d-women, and the people there have next to no interest in me. I must have just pressed his buttons particularly hard or something 08:44 womble: you used your evil mind powers on him, didn't you? DIDN'T YOU?!?! 08:44 if you look at it as a casual observer, he's doing a really good job at it... 08:44 * joeyh is glad to be governed by the candian consitiution now. 08:44 * gravity waits for vorlon's head to explode 08:45 kylem: he shares many patterns with contested, yet popular politicians 08:45 "guaranteed in the Canadian constitution" 08:45 * womble directs his evil mind powers at vorlon... 08:45 enrico: You got that right 08:45 enrico, i'm thinking of one. 08:45 enrico, and given a thread on -private a year ago (or so) find it pretty damned funny. 08:46 Makes for an interesting case study 08:46 "dead delegate"? 08:46 Oh man... I should go back and read that. I only saw the -project thread 08:46 you know, I've been thinking about the "being insulted on the mailing list" bit. Vorlon once chastized me for being wounded far too easily in discussions, and I think that is a valid point. reacting with wounded dignity can escalate a discussion into a raging flame far faster than just carrying on. 08:46 -!- freefall (Renqilong) [~along@61.190.88.132] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss 08:46 AngusLees: for the record, we were aiming for a spring meeting, and various other committments resulted in April and May being non-starters. 08:47 Go Gus. 08:47 joeyh, our constitution is fairly weak. especially the notwithstanding clause... :D 08:47 -!- Huahua [~hua@61.235.118.66] has quit [Client Quit] 08:47 -!- hua (Huang Jiahua) [~hua@61.235.118.66] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss 08:48 kylem: weak in what regard? 08:48 if we cacrifice the "universal OS" slogan, I wan to be the one to hold its neck down. 08:48 Manoj, "(1) Parliament or the legislature of a province may expressly declare in an Act of Parliament or of the legislature, as the case may be, that the Act or a provision thereof shall operate notwithstanding a provision included in section 2 or sections 7 to 15 of this Charter." 08:48 * joeyh would love to learn who put that BS on www.d.o 08:48 joeyh: :-) 08:48 joeyh: that was bruces idea, was it not? 08:48 "universal means different things to different people." in other words, there is no universal definition of universal. cute. 08:49 kylem: uymm, this is too late at night for me to understand language like that 08:49 A few years ago we were known for our easy install too? When was this? 08:49 -!- snakeru [~snakeru@host-80-95-32-178.leasedlines.sura.ru] has left #debian-dpl-discuss [] 08:49 Probably well before my time 08:49 Probably when Debian had 1 package 08:49 mmm, do you think candidates will continue for a while here after the official debate? 08:49 some of them, at least? 08:49 gravity: post SLS. 08:49 <@dondelelcaro> dato: possibly 08:49 Hm, didn't know XSF's repository server ran unstable. 08:49 gravity: yeah, mid-90s it was an easy install compared to the alternatives 08:49 Manoj: Yeah... a little before me 08:49 when I installed debian, it was the easiest install around 08:49 Manoj, the canadian government, either federal or provincial, can declare that a part of our bill of rights is inactive by act of parliament. 08:50 kylem: oh. no constitutional amendment required? 08:50 Manoj: Oh, so there was such time... 08:50 Manoj, correct. 08:50 Question for candidates: In what way do you think Debian can honor the labor contributions of non-DDs who do significant work for the project (e.g. translators)? 08:50 Manoj: it makes an exception for 5 years, with renewal necessary if it is to be continued 08:51 hacim: improvement have been made through the nm- proccess 08:51 hacim: Well, there are also enough people maintaining (sometimes important) packages and in NM... 08:51 Manoj, kylem: and to the best of my non-canadian knowledge, the politicians are pretty much loath to use that power, and the few times it has happened it has been undone 08:51 hacim: good question. in other words, how to take some of the wind out of the mythos that a @debian.org address is the only achievement one should be striving for 08:51 Hydroxide, well duh. 08:51 Hydroxide, how many times has the US declared martial law? :) 08:51 Hydroxide, the only time i can think of was the FLQ crisis in 196X 08:51 peterS: Getting mentioned on the changelog? :-) 08:52 kylem: well, even without your notwithstanding clause, I think basic freedoms are greater in canada than the US right now 08:52 kylem: Doesn't need such a declaration to suspend lots of rights 08:52 * joeyh notices that he now has a space-bar reflex to pause noninteractive things he's watching.. like debates 08:52 pity it doesn't work, didn't someone mention breaks? 08:52 Hydroxide, you don't typically get to be government for long when you revoke rights of your citizens. ;-) 08:52 sanxiyn: yeah, that's status quo. I'd agree with hacim that more public acknowledgement of people who do the work would be nice 08:52 -!- XinmingLai_ (XinmingLai) [XinmingLai@60.180.94.242] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss 08:52 sanxiyn: I'm talking about people who contribute to heavily to the project but aren't considered "part of debian" 08:52 Hydroxide, that's true. you're guaranteed more in the charter. 08:53 smurfix, yeah. 08:53 <@dondelelcaro> kylem: I don't think it's been declared nation wide in quite some time... in specific areas it may have been implemented. 08:53 hacim: I know people in the situation you are describing. 08:53 I thought everyone credited their translators in the changelogs 08:53 dondelelcaro, i'm having a hard time thinking of any time where it would have been (but i've never taken a US history class) :) 08:53 * enrico goes to work 08:53 joeyh: we've had the break that was mentioned 08:53 gravity: I think peterS is saying that something more than changelog mention may be motiviating. 08:53 -!- enrico [~enrico@enrico.developer.debian] has quit [Client Quit] 08:53 <@dondelelcaro> kylem: about the only times I can think of would be in civil war times and/or 1812... and even then, it's imposed in very specific locales. 08:54 * sanxiyn is just fine with changelog though. 08:54 -!- scyrma [f745718b4a@222.90.36.61] has quit [Client Quit] 08:54 dondelelcaro, *nod* 08:54 * gravity shrugs. It's not like DD's get much more credit. 08:54 gravity: Indeed. 08:54 * hacim contemplates @i18n.debian.org addressses and voting power, but no upload ability 08:54 Unless you want your blog syndicated to planet Debian. Hell, even Simon Law was on there for a whiel 08:54 gravity, only when we fuck shit up. :) 08:54 hacim: Oh. 08:54 kylem: Right :-) 08:54 hacim: is that so hard to join the project and maintaining a few packages ? 08:55 WOOHOO to DWN Features! 08:55 hacim: they should get @scc.debian.org addresses 08:55 -!- TCW [~TCW@europa.hardworx-online.net] has quit [Client Quit] 08:55 <@Rhonda> hacim: I think that's a sensible suggestion. Could you raise it on debian-project@lists? 08:55 <@slef> gravity: ? 08:55 migus: Yes, currently. 08:55 wtf 08:55 translators getting email addresses? 08:55 slef: I'd suggested adding feature articles (tutorials and such) to DWN to make it more than just the weekly news 08:55 <@Rhonda> migus: Is that so hard to not force everyone who wants to contribute something to maintain a package? 08:55 slef: It's cool to see someone else with the idea 08:55 i agree they are important and should be recognized, but that's kind of extreme. 08:56 Rhonda: you are right :) 08:56 kylem: I think GNOME project gives translators CVS commiting right. 08:56 Yeah... easy access to projects via alioth should be plenty 08:56 kylem: should they be full developers instead? 08:56 -!- nota [~golan@ciriusgw.us.es] has quit [Client Quit] 08:56 sanxiyn: Well, that doesn't need an @debian.org 08:56 Manoj, why would they need to be, if we're just giving them a mail alias. 08:56 <@Rhonda> kylem: It's a sensible thing to do. They contribute quite often _MUCH MORE_ than $joe_random Debian Developer. 08:56 Rhonda: it was raised at the last debconf some, but it would be good to bring it up again for discussion 08:57 Rhonda, it's only an issue if you don't speak english. ;-) 08:57 -!- xjzzx [~xjzzx@222.80.187.254] has quit [Client Quit] 08:57 How would someone go through NM completely anonymously? 08:57 essentially the question comes down to when should some one be enfranchised in debian 08:57 Rhonda, i also think $joe random loser needs to be expunged for the project if they're not contributing. 08:58 Rhonda, maybe the best thing is to take ubuntu's dealie for translations when it's ready to be free. 08:58 so JW to NM, now. 08:58 womble: Perhaps just a fake name? 08:58 he agreed to it. 08:58 -!- fabbione [~fabbione@port49.ds1-van.adsl.cybercity.dk] has quit [Client Quit] 08:58 -!- xinming [XinmingLai@60.180.94.242] has quit [Client Quit] 08:58 <@Rhonda> kylem: Of course. I'm fully for a recheck every so-and-so period of time. 08:58 gravity: How would you pass the ID check? *Someone* would have to know who you really are 08:58 -!- _pronik [~nikolai@217.7.11.148] has quit [Client Quit] 08:58 The AM couldn't know, so a couple of other DDs would have to sign the fake key 08:58 womble: Good point. 08:58 <@dondelelcaro> womble: actually, rather easily... since you could sign your fake key... 08:59 dondelelcaro: But you need other sigs and such to pass ID check now 08:59 a developer who maintainns a package has stood up and taken responsibility for a fraction of the finished product; in units that the product is distributed and tracked in: a package. 08:59 ooo, this is a fun question 08:59 womble: I think it's not possible to pass anonymously in sane way. 08:59 bab: Yeah. This is the best one yet :-) 08:59 fwiw, there are jokes that I'm a "virtual" personna of jordi. 08:59 <@dondelelcaro> although, in most cases, you can go through the NM templates yourself, and ask an AM if you have specific questions. 08:59 this isn't really a fair question, although I want to see what JW's answer is 08:59 martin_krafft_: too late for another question? 08:59 Not to mention that you'd have to maintain packages or do something else useful as your pseudonym in order to get through. 08:59 because only he knows me IRL, nobody else. 08:59 dato: Are you? 09:00 <@martin_krafft_> try it. 09:00 <@martin_krafft_> vorlon: ^^ 09:00 martin_krafft_: what do you believe is the minimum level of activity that should be expected from DDs? 09:00 <@Rhonda> dato: Me being accused of being Joey (Schulze). :) 09:00 sanxiyn: the answer will always be, 'no!' 09:00 GO GUS! 09:00 gravity +1 09:00 Rhonda, i'm sorry, now that i reflect on it, mail alias + voting would probably be a good idea for high volume translators. 09:00 <@slef> AngusLees++ for honesty, -- for diplomacy 09:00 <@Rhonda> kylem: :) 09:01 best moment in the debate goes to angus 09:01 <@helix> slef: heh 09:01 -!- adamhall [~adamhall@24-119-156-96.cpe.cableone.net] has left #debian-dpl-discuss [] 09:01 Rhonda, a metric would need to be established for keeping people active though, since it would be fairly easy for a translator to do say a 100, get their alias, then fade to obscurity. 09:01 hmm, andreas didn't answer did he? 09:02 kylem: Yes, translator continuity is a problem indeed. 09:02 more interestingly, JW didn't 09:02 <@dondelelcaro> Rhonda: I'd be a little wary about the voting though, unless they had gone through the P&P part of NM, though. 09:02 <@Rhonda> kylem: You mean... Like people coming in with a package and doing no upload after they got their account? :) 09:02 hmm, yes 09:02 <@Rhonda> kylem: It's not like that isn't happening. 09:02 martin_krafft_: *should* expect from DDs, not *can* expect from DDs 09:02 Rhonda, yes, exactly. 09:02 dondelelcaro: indeed, it's not like P&P is discriminatory against people who can't hack it as real maintainers 09:02 Rhonda, granted, i don't think anyone should lose their mail alias ever. voting priviledge should definitely be tied to activity though. 09:02 (i'm annoyed when i lose email aliases. ;) 09:02 as opposed to T&S 09:02 <@martin_krafft_> vorlon: sorry... i suck. 09:02 martin_krafft_: can you ask JW and Andreas to answer, perhaps, the who would you vote question? 09:03 <@Rhonda> dondelelcaro: DPL voting, at least. Might be discussed about technical issues, granted. 09:03 aw, no real discussion on that point anyway, alas. 09:03 -!- nobse [tretkowski@intrepid.inittab.de] has left #debian-dpl-discuss [] 09:03 martin_krafft_: it's ok, the candidates' answers would probably have been lame anyway :) 09:03 <@slef> vorlon: tail-end. 09:03 <@dondelelcaro> Rhonda: yeah, the technical issues and changing project directions are the real things I'm worried about... 09:03 I try to make a point of detecting inactive people before they actually hurt the project by neglectance of packages... 09:03 martin_krafft_: thanks 09:04 we need something like the old karma report. Though with better heuristics 09:04 "I'm willing to upset some people in order to make things better for everyone else" 09:04 Indeed. 09:04 * gravity chuckles at aj 09:04 the old karma report was a farce 09:04 slef: indeed 09:04 jaldhar: karma report was really something I very dislike 09:05 <@slef> Manoj: did someone refer to it? 09:05 <@slef> oic, soz 09:05 Manoj: yes true. I was #1 just by adding new webmin modules :) 09:05 nearly as bad the as "Ranking of worst maintainers" of a few months ago 09:05 <@dondelelcaro> jvw: hrm... I must have missed that one 09:05 -!- XinmingLai_ [XinmingLai@60.180.94.242] has quit [Client Quit] 09:05 * Hydroxide didn't really expect JW to answer the voting question, anyway 09:05 -!- XinmingLai_ (XinmingLai) [XinmingLai@60.180.94.242] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss 09:05 jvw: for some personality types a "high score table" is motivational 09:06 hahahaha. 09:06 hahah. 09:06 still no answer to that question from krooger? 09:06 oh shit. 09:06 holy shit 09:06 tell me he didn't just do that. 09:06 kylem: he did. He so did. 09:06 He did it 09:06 s/FEAR/WIT/ 09:06 And I laughed 09:06 fuck it. i'm voting for him now. 09:06 :) 09:06 And now I shall laugh some more 09:06 "For some personality types" +1 09:07 with god on our side, how can we lose! 09:07 im so glad i stayed up for that finale! 09:07 ;-) 09:07 <@slef> kylem: holy war? 09:07 Thanks moderators! 09:07 -!- sugarmice (Tim Cutts) [~tim@cpc2-cmbg5-6-0-cust155.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has joined #debian-dpl-discuss 09:07 slef, sigh, i'd make an off-colour joke, but i'd really rather not have a holy war at such a late hour. 09:07 So who's going to post the "who'd you vote for" question to -vote so we can get more answers? 09:07 yes, thank everyone. 09:07 -!- BrandenRobinson is now known as Overfiend 09:07 thanks. 09:07 -!- AnthonyTowns is now known as aj 09:08 BrandenRobinson, AndreasSchuldei, AnthonyTowns, AngusLees, MatthewGarrett, martin_krafft_, helen: good job 09:08 Okay, beat me up, folks. 09:08 Everybody, thank you. 09:08 well, this was the best debate I have seen, so far 09:08 Back to our regularly scheduled nicks 09:08 -!- AngusLees is now known as gus 09:08 well done, folks 09:08 Let's hear it. Every misstep, every overreach. 09:08 * aj takes the tie off and undoes the collar, ugh 09:08 Overfiend: J00 SUX D00D 09:08 Well done everyone 09:08 * Rhonda hands aj some beer. 09:08 If I'm not mistaken, stockholm wins the "fuck" award. 09:08 <@dondelelcaro> The log, if anyone missed part of the debate: http://archimedes.ucr.edu/debian_dpl_debate 09:08 Is there a transcript of the entire debate somewhere? I only caught the last half hour (way too early in the morning for me. :-) ) 09:09 -!- MatthewGarrett is now known as mjg59_ 09:09 <@dondelelcaro> sugarmice: see above 09:09 peterS: none of us mentioned the benefits of heterogenity because there's no time to answer multipart questions fully, for reference, gar 09:09 Overfiend: I'll reserve that one for you-know-who. 09:09 congrats candidates, helen, martin_krafft_ 09:09 That was pretty insane 09:09 aj: there is that 09:09 <@Rhonda> sugarmice: Right above your question. :) 09:09 * smurfix seconds bab 09:09 Bing - someone must have been reading my mind 09:09 I'm going to have to re-read the log when it's posted more carefully 09:09 <@helen> thanks people 09:09 I only got snippets 09:09 <@martin_krafft_> mjg59_: sorry. :) 09:09 Next year... question: Response + Rebuttal? 09:09 * Overfiend also welcomes feedback in /msg. 09:10 So can we hear about benefits of heterogenity now? :-) 09:10 <@Rhonda> . o O ( do we have a Matthew in listamsters? i didn't seen one yet. ) 09:10 Can someone give the nicks of the candidates (with names), I have nick changes ignored >_< 09:10 <@dondelelcaro> Adrinael: they're on db.debian.org 09:10 Oh 09:10 <@Rhonda> womble: You bad bad h@><0r! :) 09:10 Adrinael: I'm Matthew Garrett 09:10 Adrinael: aj = Anthony Towns, stockholm = Andreas Schuldei, Overfiend = Branden Robinson, ... 09:10 dondelelcaro: but they don't seem searchable (via remote LDAP) anymore :( 09:10 Adrinael: brandenrobinson == overfiend. anthonytowns == aj. anguslees == gus. matthewgarrett == mjg59 09:10 ANGRYDPL++! 09:10 "and I approve this message" 09:10 ;-) 09:10 <@dondelelcaro> gus: but the web frontend should work... 09:10 Adrinael: krooger = SirDinosaur = Jonathan Walther 09:10 <@helix> joeyh: heh 09:10 Thanks to everyone =) 09:10 Adrinael: I'm Angus Lees (note to everyone, its a british surname - not "Lee") 09:11 (since that mistake seems to have been made several times this election) 09:11 gus: you could be Anthony Town 09:11 rhonda: didn't you know, I have evil mind powers... 09:11 Overfiend: ha, was about to say that 09:11 what is angrydpl? 09:11 Manoj: that would be mjg59's campaign web site 09:11 Manoj: mjg59's campaign headquarters 09:11 There's a "fuck" award? 09:11 Manoj: A website that some people wrote without telling me 09:11 vorlon: Andreas was the only candidate to say "fuck" during the debate. 09:12 mjg59_: i am *so* getting an "ESR stole my cultural heritage" shirt, btw 09:12 <@helix> not the one I would've expected :) 09:12 gus: Haha 09:12 hey, at least mjg59_ didn't do the usual nouveau web thing and challenge the DNS limit of 64 bytes per domain component 09:12 -!- caiqian [~caiqian@211.158.74.87] has quit [Client Quit] 09:12 oh, the site is back up 09:12 helix: you have ops in here, or I'd experience one hell of a rebound from all my self-restraint... 09:12 It should also be noted that plane tower tower.com wasn't registered by me... 09:12 Overfiend, feel free to do it in -devel for our amusement. 09:12 (Or even on my behalf) 09:12 <@helix> I wonder what it is with people thinking I'm all nuts with ops powers 09:12 Overfiend: bleh, like this channel matters now. if she kicks you out of here you can just take it to #debian-devel 09:13 * sanxiyn visits http://www.angrydpl.com/ 09:13 -!- ace2001ac [~acharles@185.245.33.65.cfl.res.rr.com] has left #debian-dpl-discuss ["Leaving"] 09:13 Overfiend: spiff 09:13 -!- sugarmice [~tim@cpc2-cmbg5-6-0-cust155.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has quit ["BitchX: shaken, not stirred"] 09:13 see y'all in the funny papers. the xfree86 SVN repo has been restored to an FSFS-backed housing 09:13 <@helen> helix, Rhonda, slef, dondelelcaro thanks for helping in here. You have done a great job! 09:13 -!- Overfiend [~branden@cpe-65-26-182-85.indy.res.rr.com] has left #debian-dpl-discuss [] 09:13 -!- Irssi: Topic: -: Deutsche Telekom are dilettants! 09:13 -!- Irssi: Topic: +: http://archimedes.ucr.edu/debian_dpl_debate for the debate transc 09:13 -!- dondelelcaro changed the topic of #debian-dpl-discuss to: The 2005 Debian DPL debate will take place on 16 March 2005, 06:00 UTC | Candidate names and platforms are available at http://www.debian.org/vote/2005/vote_001 | Debate details: http://lists.debian.org/debian-vote/2005/03/msg00507.html | Summary of debian-vote discussions: http://debian.edv-bus.at/vote-2005 | This is the public discussion channel for the debate. | http://archimedes.ucr.edu/debian_dpl_debate for the debate transc 09:14 -!- kylem [~kyle@CPE0030ab0b413b-CM023469906297.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has left #debian-dpl-discuss [] --- Log closed Mit Mär 16 09:14:06 2005